exactly! and the now officially green-lit VW midengine roadster

Link? or details?

http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...roduction.html

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/01/r...e-green-light/

http://www.dailytech.com/Report+VW+B...ticle18912.htm

maybe toyota can make a new mr2/s to compete directly with this, perhaps with a nice new boxer engine? :P

Again, and the F20 wasn't overengineered and ready for tons of boost? Also, 800hp can be had with around 20k which now, would put total cost of that and the car itself into the 30's, close to 40. Nowhere near the 80k+ that a GTR costs.

Err... Seriously? It never even occurred to me to compare the two. Price maybe, but everything else? Cheap? Check. Reliable? Getting better than old Tiburons and Ponys. Fast? Maybe? I really don't know much about this car aside from Hyundai thinks they're competing with the G37 with the V6 version.

It just doesn't seem like the same class of car. More Korean Grand Tourer vs Japanese Sports Car. Totally different for me at least.

I get what your saying. And im all for the built not bought philosophy, but its gonna be years until this car will be competitive.

Its not really. Im just thinking of FR cars in production right now.

I have no doubt that the FR-S will be quick. 0-60 6.5 seconds, 1/4 mile low 14s, ~100ft 60-0 braking, 1:30 round top gears track, 8:25-8:40 on the 'ring.

It will not be a Z06/GT-R/911 killer. TYhe turbo version...stock no. Tuned? Sure. But it will cost you.

I don't think it will be that long, but it will take a long while before it can be done with the kind of $$ you can build a 240 for.

Thats more what I meant.

I though FT-86 was built to be drift legend, which is why they are focusing on handling more than power. I could be wrong, but I think it makes more sense when a small light weight car rather be a drifter car than be a giant killer.
on the side note, RX-7 is a halo car, yes. It's a legendary drift car, unlike Supra MK4 or Skyline R34. Then again, I could be wrong.

It's strange that more people don't drift the Supra. With its wheelbase and balance it makes for very predictable drifts. (Maybe the MK4s are too expensive and the MK3's aren't cool enough.)

A vid of Orido in his old RS-R Mk4:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2qLW3wU2Ug

This FR-S may be less happy in a drift with a shorter wheelbase and more centralized mass.

I'm glad the drifting fad is starting to die out.

Yes, that's Orido's #2 Supra (technically 3rd one, if you count his personal Supra). Orido used Supra from '05 D1GP. He wreck that car (#2) & made 3rd Supra, but while delivering that car to one of the event, the truck got into the wreck and never seen Orido w Supra in 2005. He came back to D1GP in '08 & '09 w IS250 & Aristo (once w Supra)... but never enter all the events, so was pretty much below 16 ranking.
http://stat.ameba.jp/user_images/200...0187923879.jpghttp://image.modified.com/f/15601163...ota_aristo.jpg

but this year want to win the D1GP, so he bought another Supra again (4th one) and colored it Adavan Black & Red (like below).
http://stat001.ameba.jp/user_images/...0566273035.jpghttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_O4dsEyVfug...0/IMG_0125.jpg

Currently he's in 6th place overall... That's not bad for missing one event due to big wreck in practice run (@ Autopolis).

Anyways, back to your Q, cuz Supra is getting old & hard to come by now. Some of Supras are now in junk yard (you could say 1/3 of em). I have been to few junk yard and I've seen several Skyline, Silvia, Supra, Z, Evo, STI & all other sports car getting crushed into hunk of metal.

I think, I have show this pic here, but here's R32 (technically GTS-t) in junk yard.
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n.../GT-S32-01.jpg

That Skyline was my cousin's w swapped RB26 engine and fairly a lot of mods done to it... but after got in the wreck, it went to junk yard and left it there (prob crushed by now). All the JDM sports car is in junk yard waiting to be crushed.

I would have 4 trim levels:

Base: Nothing special, for the people who just basically want to look cool and drive a sporty looking car. 5 speed manual or automatic. A fast car, but not something anybody would actually race in.

Luxury: Same performance as base, but with leather seats, navigation, Bose speakers, heated seats, etc.

Track: The race version. Roll cage, turbo, 6 speed manual transmission, recaro or similar seats, detachable steering wheel, something for the hardcore racer.

Customizable: The base with a roll cage, or track engine and turbo as well if wanted. This would be for the person who would keep pretty much nothing but the car's body the same. This is for totally aftermarket modifications.

AKA what scion does. I hope the same for the FT.

Also im pretty sure roll cage will not be an option.

For all of you with your 'Track' wish list with things like roll cages and such, this is a bad idea (and not going to happen anyways). Build don't buy. Besides if you look at what Toyota/Lexus charges for its TRD/'F' rebranded parts, you'll save a bloody mint doing it yourselves. Can't think of Toyota ever doing a Track edition anyways.

If you want a track car:

A. Just buy the trim level with the best engine/transmission package.

B. Gut all the crap that the factory will try to package in with the up-level motor (even assuming there's going to be multiple options).

C. Replace all the good (but still cost/comfort compromised) factory suspension, wheels, tires, brakes, seats etc... with reputable aftermarket parts.

D. Add in any suitable safety equipment keeping in mind that roll cages can do more harm than good sometimes if you're not wearing a helmet.

E. Pose at the nearest ricer hangout with your hardcore never-tracked 'track' car.

Just (mostly) kidding on the last one. But everybody knows it's going to happen to more than a few of these cars...

All the "track" model needs to have is the turbo's brakes, an uprated suspension and AirCon/Carpet/Radio/Power Window/Rear seat/Sound insulation delete (option for the cry babies :P). Front fixed bucket seat dealer option. All but front airbags delete would be nice too. Because you know the jackass feds would never let a car without that slide.

:laughabove::bellyroll::bellyroll::bellyroll:
I know few of em. They never raced w their car, but they have role cage.

Anyways, answer to the Toyota/Lexus role cage then yes, they have several Toyota place (in Yokohama JAPAN) that can install TRD role cage for your cars. iirc even Super GT uses TRD role cage in their IS's (example: Wedsport's IS250). BUT like you said, it's ridiculously expensive!!!!!!

I honestly dont' think we should talk alot about after market parts too much until we at least know what this car can do.

You know those individuals who put a bunch of name brand aftermarket parts on their cars, but end up "making it worst" than stock performance and lessen the longevity of their cars?

Well, there will be rapid aftermarket response for this car, guaranteed. This is what TRD is for. Aftermarket bits that the dealers can get in on the action with. For those not afraid of the threat of voiding an entire warranty over a set of coilovers for example, there are a whole lot of good companies that will make product for this car.

Secondly, it will need it. This is supposed to be an inexpensive, entry level sports car. This means a couple of things, compromise on cost of parts, and trading off some handling in the name of comfort (and wider market for increased sales). It WILL need improvement. Even the wonderfully stock handling Miata can be made MUCH better.

As for the brand-name whores, well what can you do? They likely fall into the 'E' category I put above. They don't care if the car is faster, only if it looks and sounds faster. You know the ones, the 'sponsor' collectors. They buy one part from every single aftermarket company so they can throw a bunch of stickers on the cars. No help for them. Let them pose.

However if someone is putting on a bunch of track caliber (real brands like Bilstein, Koni, EBC, Goodridge, etc... not Megan and K-Sport) parts and tries to track the car and has trouble with the setup, there is a good chance that they will have someone help them and learn some things.

On a side note, I kind of foresee this car garnering a bit of a 'chick-car' reputation like the Miata and Celica. Probably what Toyota is hoping for from a sales perspective too. 80:20 Show to Go ratio maybe?

You know i see some white girls drive the evo....

and they're pretty hot..:bellyroll:

Something about it seems arrousing.

Hot chicks in real performance cars is the most wonderful sight in the world!

I almost got in an accident about 3 weeks ago because I saw this super clean all black AE86 driving up the opposite way from me. Checking out the car, then saw the driver was a gorgeous Asian girl. So I kept checking and came very close to rear-ending the car in front of me. Oops.

Fixed that for you :w00t:

Yes, much better. :respekt:

... why does everyone want a turbo and/or a lot if power in this car? I just want something flyweight and precise! gah!

Even if I am adding power, even forced induction, later, I want to be able to get performance suspension/brakes without a turbo (or worse, V6!) engine, or a loaded interior.

--------------

Really. I want this to be a small, simple, performance oriented car. for all of you guys pining for more power and beefier transmission and sone luxury and this and that... these cars exist. go get a Mustang / Z / Genesis.

None of these are agile, sub 3000lb cars.

why are u so against turbos craig??? and how on earth will that comprimise any weight?? turbos weigh about 10kg (including the extra weight from the manifold weight difference) and the there is the IC with piping lets say another 10-20 kg MAX... oh no... all that to potentionaly double the power... how the fuck is that bad and how will that make the car anything but flyweight???

Hm... I agree with both point of views. Craig's view as simple lightweight fr car, enough hp to have fun and other view as have turbo option for tuned track ready high hp car can beat other heavyweight FR cars.

It doesn't have to be one option engine only. It could have (my estimation)

• NA engine: 185~200hp/165~187tq, 6sp, 2600~2750lbs
• Turbo (small turbo) engine w 220~245hp/180~192tq, 6sp, 2660~2810lbs.

That give both of em bout .07~.08hp per lbs to work with.

If they want lightweight, high rev, NA car that don't need to worry too much bout boost control & oil pressure and other etc and just have fun can go for NA, while if they want a lightweight, high rev, turbo car that can put bigger turbo and other after market stuff for track to make other car eat your dust while having fun can go for turbo.

I don't see any reason to have NA ONLY or TURBO ONLY. More option = more people buying this car = success

I have no problem having a turbo and NA version. The Silvia managed to pull it of excellently for generations (Silvia Q's and Silvia K's) only that the NA version really was not that much to shout about. Is that your preoccupation Craig?

I expect the NA version of the FT-86 to be awesome and the Turbo version to be as good, maybe even better (but slightly more expensive). I do not want nor expect the turbo version to be a supra "replacement" nor a Z06/gt-r/porsche killer, just a competent, more powerful version of a lightweight, agile sports car. An MR-2 turbo, or Silvia K's, or a cheap RX-7 Turbo if you will.

What's the issue, really? It's not as if they wont make the NA version in lieu of the Turbo.

**Sniper edit**

^^ Basically what ichitaka said.

Is part of your concern maybe that Toyota has a crappy history of NA performance when there are NA and Turbo trims levels?

With the Supra and MR2 in North America, the NA versions seemed like after-thoughts to sell a few more cars. Especially the North American MR2, with its 5SFE (Seriously, Toyota?). Plus there is almost no power-oriented aftermarket for the NA cars.

But I think a lot of the Turbo assumptions come from the fact that it's supposed to have a Subaru engine. Subaru + Performance = Turbo in most people's minds. (And personally for me Turbo = Performance, but I'm a Supra guy so that can't be helped.)

However the good news for you is that the GT5 car is NA. Polyphony Digital takes their relationship with the manufacturers pretty seriously, and if they made the car NA in the game, it's because they had a very good reason from Toyota to do so.

The closest current engine that could do the job is Subaru's EJ204 AVCS NA engine. I don't know anything about this engine beyond what is on Wikipedia, but 190 HP NA sounds about up your alley. 190 HP out of 2.0L means it's got to rev. Plus 190 Hp in 2700 lbs would be quite respectable and suitable to their price target, I think.

If there is no turbo engine, 190 HP would be my minimum acceptable number, if there's no way to cram in an EJ257, or hybrid EJ22G (turbo Legacy bottom/EJ20G heads).

STI S204 had 2L engine. You can cram that in there. lol

Turbo engine would be fine.

But binda starting to love the thought of a high revving light weight car for the track.

:bonk:

:thumbup:

why?

Ohhhhkay...

it the FT were to have an option of a engine similar to the NA version, but with a small turbo to just add some area under the curve, especially at low RPMs, I'm game for it to be on. I'd see here people wanting to spend the more money for a little more refined, torquey powertrain, and maybe a nicer interior. The people who are buying it to drive around on the street everyday.

But if the NA version is just a cheapo version and the turbo is the only choice for uprated suspension etc etc, I'll be pissed.
Furthermore, if the turbo version is built so stout like people are wanting, so it has 'giant-killer' capability...
the FT won't be either.

I really want the less power, more simple appaorach on this car. Don't get me wrong, I love turbos. I've been raised on turbodiesels and hugely enjoy my WRX.
But with the FT... I want to buy a couple-year-old one in 2013-2014, when i graduate college, do a small build (tires, brakes, light stripping, light safety) and spend my time on the track. I don't want to have to buy a 1980s-1990s car to get a light, simple RWD hardtop - they'll be getting quite old, which means the engine'll want a rebuild for track use and the chassis will be about as stiff as asparagus.

Save the 'giant-killing' for other people and other cars, I don't want to read about highly tuned FT's in magazines or the internet... i want to be driving it. On the track. All the time.

now i see your point of view and ichitaka summarized it nicely
in that case the best option would be to have few trim lvls (entry, mid, high) all with or without a turbo.
i simply want a factory turbo car cus i dont want to put a turbo on a NA then have it blow on me few thou kms later..

Sure as hell better be under 3000lbs. Especially if its a low powered NA car