That's not a good excuse since other great handling cars don't necessarily use boxer engines like the s2000 and the Integra Type R for example. Also are you trying to say the platform belongs to Toyota? I heard it was a revamped Impreza platform? And yes I know Subaru never built a RWD sports car like Toyota has but I believe they played the major part of this car like a 60% Subie 40% Toyota. But anyways it doesn't matter like you said as long as it's a great drivers car.

"We delievered the best chassis we could," he says, "and then the stying of the car was basically [Toyota's] role"

Toyota's designers shaped the body but only after the hard points of the chassis, powertrain, and the passenger compartment were fixed by Subaru

The two-piece prop shaft runs through a carrier bearing on it's way to the differential, which wears a Toyota part number

This Aaron Robinson character is trying to stir the pot! Toyota should have built this car on it's own!

Are you butt-hurt that Honda isn't building this car and Toyota is? Makes it a little more believable/acceptable to you that Subaru is doing the Lion's share of the engineering?

I'm not trying to be an ass, just genuinely asking.

yep. lets list the things that are toyota related:

-this article mentions the diff is a toyota part
-Aisin tranny, both of them, are toyota related
-yamaha head, toyota related
-column mounted EPS, toyota related
-D-4S, toyota related
-Denso ECU (probably), toyota related

and i suspect as time goes on more and more parts will be toyota parts. and i'm supposed to believe that subaru engineers tuned all these toyota parts all by themselves, instead of a cooperative team like Tada-san said? 100% subaru developed my ass...

Quick, caption it "Haters gonna hate"

:bellyroll:

Yeah, those output figures aren't really possible for a non-boosted engine.

If some insider was messing with a writer and said the BMEP of the engine is 210 psi, and the writer doesn't fully understand how it works, then they would end up with those figures.

If it really does produce a BMEP of 210 psi it is still EPIC, especially at 4000 rpm. But in reality the number will taper down at peak hp. If it drops 10% it would keep the 170 lb-ft @ 4000 but the bhp peak would have to move up to 6900 rpm to make 200 bhp. Still pretty good power curve.

If it only dropped 5% it could make 205 bhp @ 6700 rpm. Which would be wicked.

Edit: Or 200 bhp @ 6500 rpm with that 5% drop...

Whatever the case the mag numbers are not possible, but 210 psi at 4000 rpm torque peak would be very nice.

(Also note that BMEP for torque is not attached to rpm, so the 4000 rpm could also be very optimistic. 210 psi BMEP on a 2.0L motor equates to 170 lb-ft, but doesn't tell us where in the rpm range.)

Wow!! You are so ignorant on the situation. Honda sucks a whole lot of ass and I could care less about them since the 90's. I am not bias to any brand here. I just use common sense. You're the one that's butt-hurt it seems because I also dislike Subaru. I pledge no allegiance to any brand.

Um sure... cuz your user name is so neutral....:iono:

Just so as you know, the Subaru STi 6 speed gearbox has always been manufactured by Aisin and all 32bit Subaru ECUs come from Denso.

I suspect the $28K price is at a high trim level--fancy wheels, maybe some drop-in suspension and brake upgrades--while the Scion price is probably advertised at a lower trim level and will come in cheaper.

Anyway, it's a promising teaser. BRZ @ $28K and 6.0-6.2 sec 0-60. The Genesis Coupe 2.0T C&D tested a year ago was around $28K as configured, 7 sec 0-60. The 3.8 was 5.7 sec but $30K as tested (track package). The Miata is about a second slower than the time estimated for the BRZ, though nobody buys a Miata for straight-line speed.

It should be plenty fast enough to get into trouble, and it sounds like it handles well. We'll see if the reality matches up to the pre-release corporate hype.

Hahaha...My nickname is SubNegro. On Gencoupe.com my handle is Sub-Gen,on ClubRSX it's Sub-RSX so I'm sorry to burst your bubble but I dislike Subarus mainly because of there terrible styling.

Eh... the 28k better be the highest trim for Subaru at MSRP... -_-;

Though I found it fascinating that they were driving the automatic (yeah, most of you would yack at that :P) and currently found it to be handling great still. Should be better then for those that drive it manually?

:thumbup: I see what you did there.

p.s. I'm not a brand guy either, but I don't dish undue hate. Keep it classy.

Eh. Of course they're going to be quoting MSRP--they're quoting the M's suggestions for the retail price! The Mustang V6 C&D tested came in at $30K after a ~$2K handling package, for, OK, a 5.4 second 0-60 but a 3500lb curb weight with a live axle. Their Camaro LT 6 cylinder was tested at $29K with a 3800 lb (!) curb weight and 5.9 sec 0-60.

What is everyone comparing this to?

I'm comparing it to a Lotus Evora.

Porsche Cayman

i getting fking annoyed by this subaru pro bullshit. pretty sure the project engineer(from toyota) clearly said that they were borrowing Subaru's "boxer CONFIGURATION". thats all. its meant to be a complete new block with d4s and yamaha heads.

My mom's minivan

Subaru for the win!:popcorn:

The block is from Subaru's new engine range, already going into production Imprezas and Foresters.

I'm pretty confident after sorting any minor clearance issues, my built Subaru engine will just drop straight in, my Subaru wheels will just bolt straight on and my Subaru number plates won't look out of place even if I have to buy this Subaru from a Toyota dealership (I'd actually quite like that).

You can get annoyed by that, join the club and learn about Subaru engineering or buy another bag of zip ties for your old Soarer.

don't want to stir the pot anymore but subft86 i do believe common sense would say when trying to build a lightweight low cog balanced car one would select a engine if they could that reflects those traits as well and when it comes to 4 cylinders there is no better configuration that achieves this better than a flat four design and when you own 16% of the parent company you could say Toyota had a hand in everything


SIDE NOTE: $28 and at that weight count me out

If that's US price, then EU price will be at least 30.000€.
This car will be anything but affordable.
At that price I can buy BMW 120d or 120i coupe with 175HP (not quite the same car, but fun non the less, probably with better interior and more comfortable).
Count me out.

2800-2900LBS lulz.

hilarious.

why would anyone spend that much money on a car that is equally heavy and anemic.

;_;

my hopes...they wane.

19/27 would be terrible fuel consumption going forward.

22/31 would seem more respectable!

out of curiosity, what's the typical Direct Injection fuel economy?

I mean the car is also lighter than your conventional cars as well.

yup. I wont buy it for that price, too. If they want it to be sold here it would better be in the low 20k€ range. Otherwise people rather buy a 1series BMW or a Audi A3 or a VW Golf. Because they definetly have a better interior. And (espacially) here in Germany driving a non-german car is like having a "can´t afford a german car" tattoo on the forehead. Even if you could.

Haha thank you MR-F1 I needed that. And reading through the posts makes it even better

It's the same here in Slovenia, where at least half of cars are German (most luxury ones second hand imported from Germany).

This article is 98% BS.
We know that there was only one team: the TOYOBARU team, composed of people from Toyota and Subaru. They wanted to devide the works, but at the end it did not work, and they did everything together. The initial idea of the FT-86 came only from Toyota however, if it never came from them, we also wouldn't see any Subaru.

The specs are just wrong. The price is not too high. I don't know about you, but a BMW 1 Series costs 28.000 € without any powerful engine an without equipment. A VW Golf VI is just a piece of sh** if talking about handling.
Kerb Weight of the FT-86/BRZ is under 1200 kg / 2600 lbs. Dry Weight is around 1000 kg. EU under 1250 kg.

and even if the Golf is s***ty and a BMW costs the same, I guess 90% of the european buyers would decide for them.
The only reason for the average German for buying a non-german car is the price. Noone would have bought a MX-5 (Miata) here, if the Benz SLK or the Bimmer Z3 would have had the same price tag. That´s also the reason why you barely see any Lexus or Jaguar here. All here who have the money for this class of cars (70k ish € and more) rather buy a german brand.

If you´d tell the avg. German that you´ve bought a new car, he´d be totally interested. Until you name a non-german brand.
And that´s also why the Germans let fool themselves with the cars prices. Here they rather buy a low-end-optioned ~100bhp Audi A1 sh*tbox for 18k€ (25k$!!!) than a fully optioned Mitsu Lancer.

gna, my heart freq... :-/

The 2800-2900lb curb weight was kind of expected. But the $28k price tag...No. If it isn't under $25k for the base I'll be completely turned off the car.

The 2012 VW GTI is EPA-rated at 21/31 mpg. 200 hp/200 tq, direct injected and turbocharged.

I agree with you but what about the LOTUS ELISE/EXIGE???????? Why didn't Lotus go to Subaru and borrow one of their engines instead for optimal handling? This is a company whose focus is handling over power.

s2000 weight 1275kg x 240cv.....

“No,no, no – it is a completely new engine. The engine is still a boxer. The technology, even the engine block are completely new. Everything is new. The only thing that remained are the mounting points.” Tetsuya Tada, cheif engineer

at least my soarer will last 20 more years.

Lotus already has a R-MR configuration and the engine is situated low anyway in the car itself.. You are comparing apples to melons there.
Perhaps the flat4 was too wide??

That's my point!!!

They didn't need a boxer engine to obtain a low CoG just clever engineering. I was responding to the guys who said that a boxer engine is the best way to do it yet we have other automakers that get it done without boxer engines even in FMR configuration. Am I really that hard to understand or are you guys not reading my posts correctly? It's like I'm repeating myself over and over again.

You just seem a little thick, that's all.

Lotus is not a high production company but. They do not have the means to go and make their own engine or heavily modify existing ones. Like I said, perhaps they needed more room for the suspension linkage attachment points etc, something that a wide boxer engine would not be able to fit in to.
I FULLY understand your point, there is NO be all and end all answer for a "perfect" car design. Everything and anything can be made good in its own way, we're on the same page there, I'm just playing devils advocate ;)
In hindsight, and this isnt directed st you SUB, people are being too, what's the word, crazy, NO, needy. You CAN'T have a CHEAP, RELIABLE, LIGHT, FAST, WELL BALANCED, WELL DESIGNED and GOOD LOOKING car that is to EVERYBODYS taste.
Oh I'm not gonna buy it if it weighs/costs/has this much power. Then don't.. Who the hell cares? You think Toyota cares? They have a design and they has market research and they have already made their target figures.
Want it lighter? Strip some shit out
Want it faster? Get a different engine/FI/lighter
Want it to look better? Get a paint job/fully sick chromies/body kit/cannon muffler(this one was be cus I think the car looks good)
Want it cheaper? Go get something else..
Be happy that you have such a great car on offer.. Remember that this car has to pass STRINGENT crash/impact/emissions regulations to even be released.. This isn't 1990 any more. You can compare cars today with stuff that was released then.
/rant

Well I guess we have that in common.

:word:

I totally agree with your post. You can't have it all for a cheap price.