Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB
Page 3 of 9 12 3 4567 Last »
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   BRZ First-Gen (2012+) — General Topics (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=23)
-   -   New Rumor: Subaru Developing Turbo 4 2.0T for BRZ (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20411)

OrbitalEllipses 10-22-2012 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNS (Post 513902)
I would love to be dead wrong on this. I'm only responding to the above statement that they'll 'differentiate' it from the WRX with a 2.5L turbo engine. I want to see a turbo FA20 in the WRX/STI and to watch the EJ257 go the way of the dodo.
That's VERY likely. Turbo FA20 derivative in the WRX with a Turbo FA25 type engine in the STI would be my bet. There has to be a bigger difference in power generation than JUST turbos as it is in the current gen. Hell, the EJ255 of this generation has all DAVCS that ONLY the STI EJ257 had for YEARS (aside from fluke engine placements like the 2004/5 Forester). Aside from the transmission and brakes, the WRX is the better car of the two IMO.

fistpoint 10-22-2012 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sho220 (Post 513877)
Hell, even at their current prices people are complaining they're priced too high...
The current MSRP is too high(I always thought by $1.5-$2k), the 2013 Accord EX(and lesser trims) is evidence of this. I had previously accepted the dollar to yen excuse as a valid reason, not anymore. Look at all the things you get for $25k and less with any of the 2013 Accord models and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Yes, obviously they aren't in the same class, but we're talking about what you get for every dollar spent. The vehicle type is irrelevant.

edited to add: I must be the only one who remembers when this car was first announced that the target was a sub-$20k price.

SkullWorks 10-22-2012 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RRnold (Post 513826)
Wow, you're really gonna discredit Hachi. :slap: :thumbdown:



More news is starting to emerge so there could be a good possibility of a BRZ Turbo. So to be 100% confident that it'll never happen is pure ignorance. Anything is possible

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/10/22/s...for-brz-turbo/


apparently you didn't look at the article he linked...

it was as credible as the front page of the onion

jmaryt 10-22-2012 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sho220 (Post 513877)
A hp upgraded one will sell at a higher price point. That alone will kill some demand. Not to mention the competition gets much tougher the higher the price goes...part of the reason they're selling so well is that they're reasonably affordable. Hell, even at their current prices people are complaining they're priced too high...

If Toyota's smart, they'll keep it N/A, keep selling the crap out of them, and let the aftermarket worry about additional power...
they have hinted that there is sufficient room for a "blower",but as mentioned,
the price positioning of this car is "delicate" and at $25,000 a copy,they sure as hell are NOT giving them away now! i agree, let the aftermarket develop one!

Hachiroku 10-22-2012 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkullWorks (Post 513975)
apparently you didn't look at the article he linked...

it was as credible as the front page of the onion
Relax kimosabe, hence the "rumor" part in the title. It's been posted for discussions sake.

jmaryt 10-22-2012 10:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sho220 (Post 513877)
A hp upgraded one will sell at a higher price point. That alone will kill some demand. Not to mention the competition gets much tougher the higher the price goes...part of the reason they're selling so well is that they're reasonably affordable. Hell, even at their current prices people are complaining they're priced too high...

If Toyota's smart, they'll keep it N/A, keep selling the crap out of them, and let the aftermarket worry about additional power...
Quote:
Originally Posted by fistpoint (Post 513954)
The current MSRP is too high(I always thought by $1.5-$2k), the 2013 Accord EX(and lesser trims) is evidence of this. I had previously accepted the dollar to yen excuse as a valid reason, not anymore. Look at all the things you get for $25k and less with any of the 2013 Accord models and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Yes, obviously they aren't in the same class, but we're talking about what you get for every dollar spent. The vehicle type is irrelevant.

edited to add: I must be the only one who remembers when this car was first announced that the target was a sub-$20k price.
would love to know what this car can be built for!.this baby's got some serious "mark-up" in it,and as much as i love the car,if ya really look at the car close up,there isn't a whole hell of a lot to it! really! just sayin'

subatoy 10-22-2012 10:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_STiG (Post 513006)
do I hear a $30K price tag?
I would SO pay that much for this car. these are the balls the car needs.
besides there are already people who paid that much for the current BRZ :lol:
people are also spending $3k on this car to get pitty 15whp.
this car would come with a lot more power for that much money plus a warranty.

RRnold 10-22-2012 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkullWorks (Post 513975)
apparently you didn't look at the article he linked...

it was as credible as the front page of the onion
I did and like most of the folks who have been here know that anything can happen. Both Tada and Takeshi have gone off on so many tangents and played so many mind games just to fool the consumer. They've got something up their sleeve.

luis 10-22-2012 10:52 PM
straight direct injection is a step backward. they *need* to keep both port & DI. it's the only way - unless you want cookie cutter tuning. look at all the other DI cars ... no aftermarket injector support. not to mention carbon buildup on the intake valves.

chanomatik 10-22-2012 11:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fistpoint (Post 513954)
The current MSRP is too high(I always thought by $1.5-$2k), the 2013 Accord EX(and lesser trims) is evidence of this. I had previously accepted the dollar to yen excuse as a valid reason, not anymore. Look at all the things you get for $25k and less with any of the 2013 Accord models and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Yes, obviously they aren't in the same class, but we're talking about what you get for every dollar spent. The vehicle type is irrelevant.

edited to add: I must be the only one who remembers when this car was first announced that the target was a sub-$20k price.
I, too, recall this claim. I honestly think they jumped the gun when they announced that as we know the car costs not even $20k for them to build. I only believe this because the car's made of so many borrowed parts. Remove the R&D (or suppose the R&D eventually pays for itself within 10 years) and I honestly believe this car could sell for sub-$20k. However, that won't happen.

I think it's silly to say, "See what you can get for the same money" since there's really nothing to compare it to. For $25k I could put a nice down payment on a house. What's your point? I still wouldn't have a BRZ if I spent the money elsewhere, especially on something less exciting to drive!

jimmillion 10-22-2012 11:32 PM
I have no proof nor am I endorsed by anyone, but I just wanted to say N/A4life - carry on.

Captain Insano 10-22-2012 11:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dori. (Post 513440)
Hey as long as this turbo engine from the Leg/WRX swaps in painlessly, I'm cool with it :party0030:
EXACTLY... Just means more options. Whether they do or do not release that engine/turbo combo in the BRZ. Aftermarket supercharger - check. Aftermarket turbo - check. OEM engine swap for turbo forced induction option - check.

The more options the more diverse and crazy the BRZ/FRS cars are going to be we will be seeing, driving and enjoying here in the next coupla years.

Captain Insano 10-23-2012 12:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by subatoy (Post 514004)
I would SO pay that much for this car. these are the balls the car needs.
besides there are already people who paid that much for the current BRZ :lol:
people are also spending $3k on this car to get pitty 15whp.
this car would come with a lot more power for that much money plus a warranty.
I seriously doubt IF they do release a turbo version it will be $30K MSRP. It will probably also have better wheels and brakes not just turbo. I would be shocked if it was anything less than $34K MSRP (would be marked up initially like current cars are too).

Subie 10-23-2012 12:24 AM
For 2014 we might see two new twins on the market:

1) A turbo BRZ producing 250+ HP with a small turbo producing very little lag at low RPMs.
2) A Scion FR-S release series 1.0, with a body kit inspired by Ken Gushi's hair, 20" chromed cast iron DUB edition wheels and underglow, for only slightly more than the cost of a BRZ Limited.

DarkSunrise 10-23-2012 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fistpoint (Post 513954)
The current MSRP is too high(I always thought by $1.5-$2k), the 2013 Accord EX(and lesser trims) is evidence of this. I had previously accepted the dollar to yen excuse as a valid reason, not anymore. Look at all the things you get for $25k and less with any of the 2013 Accord models and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Yes, obviously they aren't in the same class, but we're talking about what you get for every dollar spent. The vehicle type is irrelevant.

edited to add: I must be the only one who remembers when this car was first announced that the target was a sub-$20k price.
What about all the things you get with an FR-S that you don't get with the Accord? Works both ways.

BobDigi5060 10-23-2012 12:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by switchlanez (Post 513020)
Oh and also a turbo BRZ would steal sales from Subaru's flagship - the next Subaru STI.
The turbo BRZ will be an STi.......

jkonquer 10-23-2012 01:01 AM
Here is my take.

If you look at most of the aftermarket turbo kits for brz, they are placed at unreasonable positions in the engine bay. When i say unreasonable, i meant unrealible and problematic for factory stand point. And engine bay is so compact that there isnt really a proper placement for a turbocharger. With that said i highly doubt they will make turbocharger for brz. It literaly is designing a new engine compartment.

However im sure you will be able to use turbo parts from legacy engine on brz engine. Thus making it more reliable and capable engine for brz.

Guff 10-23-2012 01:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkonquer (Post 514388)
Here is my take.

If you look at most of the aftermarket turbo kits for brz, they are placed at unreasonable positions in the engine bay. When i say unreasonable, i meant unrealible and problematic for factory stand point. And engine bay is so compact that there isnt really a proper placement for a turbocharger. With that said i highly doubt they will make turbocharger for brz. It literaly is designing a new engine compartment.

However im sure you will be able to use turbo parts from legacy engine on brz engine. Thus making it more reliable and capable engine for brz.
http://cdn.speedhunters.com/wp-conte...Imp-tS-065.jpg

Let's play Find The Turbo on this factory EJ25!





Yeah, all Turbo Boxer engines have their turbos in unusual and impractical places. That's the fallacy of having an exhaust manifold on the bottom.

Synack 10-23-2012 01:23 AM
I can't believe all the nonsense going on in this thread.

Sent from my Nexus 7

fistpoint 10-23-2012 01:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSunrise (Post 514313)
What about all the things you get with an FR-S that you don't get with the Accord? Works both ways.
LSD? I think that's about it.

What I'm getting at is that with a turbo it would definitely push $30k with no options, which would be too much versus similarly priced vehicles with "more" everything. The only advantage it would have at this price point would be purely visual and thus an opinion only.

switchlanez 10-23-2012 01:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDigi5060 (Post 514349)
The turbo BRZ will be an STi.......
According to STI President Karamatsu regarding the BRZ STI:

"Turbocharger is NOT in the concept of this greatly balanced FR sports car, so we would concentrate our developments on suspension, handling, performance improvements and sports styling. The turbocharged version of BRZ will remain only in GT300 Championship."

All those parts he touched on are already available and more (already revealed but not yet available for purchase) are trickling out every few weeks...

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1350630133

sho220 10-23-2012 01:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fistpoint (Post 514450)
LSD? I think that's about it.
How about a driveshaft? You know...the one going to the rear wheels? :D

jkonquer 10-23-2012 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guff (Post 514434)
http://cdn.speedhunters.com/wp-conte...Imp-tS-065.jpg

Let's play Find The Turbo on this factory EJ25!





Yeah, all Turbo Boxer engines have their turbos in unusual and impractical places. That's the fallacy of having an exhaust manifold on the bottom.
i guess anything is possible if you really wanted too. btw my sti was pita to work on when it came to turbo and exhaust. i must taken off my tmic 100 times.
I just can't see the factory turbo placement for brz. there are no spaces for anything in the engine aby other than front of the engine and bottom of the engine behind the subframe (which many aftermarket turbo kits are located). wrx did have lot of spaces by the firewall for turbo

Zadkiel 10-23-2012 02:11 AM
Personally, I hope they don't go turbo. I'd think it'd be more along the lines of more aggressive tuning with the engine, a different exhaust, more use of aluminum in places that use steel, deleting the rear seats, stiffer suspension, bigger wheels with grippier rubber, maybe larger brakes, and the usual aero bits.

Streetice 10-23-2012 02:44 AM
If this happens or not we all know the price boost isen't going to be small more like 5k to 6k up easy. Im still working on the cash for my FR-S and the JDM swaps im plaining.
Yes No either way im not buying just for the turbo.

tripjammer 10-23-2012 03:44 AM
A turbo BRZ and FR-S is coming, why are people doubting that this was never going to happen? It wont happen in 2014 model year, probably 2015.

slowbrz 10-23-2012 03:58 AM
didnt subaru originally say they werent going to turbo this car? i was hoping for a 250hp all motor model

dhpinoy 10-23-2012 04:04 AM
I saw this on CarBuzz app. Pretty interesting that Subaru is letting go of Toyota's Direct Injection...

Chauntalei 10-23-2012 04:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripjammer (Post 514627)
A turbo BRZ and FR-S is coming, why are people doubting that this was never going to happen? It wont happen in 2014 model year, probably 2015.
Because Subaru has been quoted MULTIPLE times stating that they want to keep the BRZ N/A. If anything comes down as far as OEM turbo, I'm willing to bet it will be something that Scion does AFTER the car comes in from the Gunma plant, and only to the FR-S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbrz (Post 514641)
didnt subaru originally say they werent going to turbo this car? i was hoping for a 250hp all motor model
Yep, they said NO forced induction, and a target of 250hp N/A via things like intake, tune, exhaust, etc.

Skyhound 10-23-2012 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripjammer (Post 514627)
A turbo BRZ and FR-S is coming, why are people doubting that this was never going to happen? It wont happen in 2014 model year, probably 2015.
Because Toyota and Subaru have said that the FR-S and BRZ will NEVER have a Turbo.

The Turbo is the WRX's signature. The BRZ is all about handling and balance.

shinigami052 10-23-2012 04:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by switchlanez (Post 513020)
Spoken like a programmer. haha
Sorry but that was just horrid "programming".

if(news_day.isSlow()) report(Turbo_BRZ);

would be better...just sayin'

DarkSunrise 10-23-2012 09:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fistpoint (Post 514450)
LSD? I think that's about it.

What I'm getting at is that with a turbo it would definitely push $30k with no options, which would be too much versus similarly priced vehicles with "more" everything. The only advantage it would have at this price point would be purely visual and thus an opinion only.
You're entitled to your opinion, but if you think the only thing that separates an FR-S from an Accord is a limited-slip differential, it sounds like there may be a lot about this car that you don't know.

Here's a video that highlights the unique features of this car (features you won't get in an Accord, for example):

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=cQ0sDiL87eE

Part 2:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdZcX7Hawhk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdZcX7Hawhk[/ame]

mike2100 10-23-2012 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RRnold (Post 513826)
Wow, you're really gonna discredit Hachi. :slap: :thumbdown:



More news is starting to emerge so there could be a good possibility of a BRZ Turbo. So to be 100% confident that it'll never happen is pure ignorance. Anything is possible

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/10/22/s...for-brz-turbo/
This is not "more news." Autoblog quoted Automotive News. No independent sources.

jadewbj 10-23-2012 09:48 AM
I like the quote where he says “there are a number of ways of increasing performance, with engine power output probably the most recognizable. Tires with a high level of grip are also essential.
These items can all be modified by customers after they have purchased the car.

Yet designing a low centre on gravity body from scratch can only be achieved by the car’s manufacturer. "

They know those who want more power will go and get it. They put the money into something the owner really can't change.

Thanks for posting the videos. It was really cool to learn all the little engine tricks and body things they did to the car. I am going to watch the toyota video now and see what they claim. It is funny that both companies basically make it sound like they did everything.

DarkSunrise 10-23-2012 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadewbj (Post 514842)
I like the quote where he says “there are a number of ways of increasing performance, with engine power output probably the most recognizable. Tires with a high level of grip are also essential.
These items can all be modified by customers after they have purchased the car.

Yet designing a low centre on gravity body from scratch can only be achieved by the car’s manufacturer. "

They know those who want more power will go and get it. They put the money into something the owner really can't change.

Thanks for posting the videos. It was really cool to learn all the little engine tricks and body things they did to the car. I am going to watch the toyota video now and see what they claim. It is funny that both companies basically make it sound like they did everything.
No problem. And agree, power and tires you can add later, but the basic foundation of the chassis -- i.e., cg height, balance, polar MOI, weight, material strength, suspension design -- are all things the manufacturer needs to get right from the beginning.

Unfortunately these are things that won't show up on a spec sheet and may get overlooked by the casual buyer (although I think a spirited test drive in both an Accord and FR-S would be enough to highlight a lot of these differences as well).

BioRage 10-23-2012 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unleashed (Post 513559)
This is going to bump up the price of the BRZ to 35k-37k out the door for sure, I mean some subie dealerships are charging 32k for the current one out the door. Ridiculous. I would much rather turbo my current one or supercharge it.

For us it's 35K OTD already for the BRZ-L.

So a bit moer wouldn't hurt, 2dr coupe with F/I, over and STi,

I would much rather a factor BRZ with F/I, than an 4DR STi :thumbup:

Obviously these are rumors, guess we will wait and see. :bonk:

Shinji2787 10-23-2012 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BioRage (Post 514914)
For us it's 35K OTD already for the BRZ-L.

So a bit moer wouldn't hurt, 2dr coupe with F/I, over and STi,

I would much rather a factor BRZ with F/I, than an 4DR STi :thumbup:

Obviously these are rumors, guess we will wait and see. :bonk:
It would only be 35k plus otd if you let yourself throw away money and pay markup... I only paid 31k otd for my limited. And that's because I got a bunch of addons that most people wouldn't get. Otherwise it would've been just shy of of 30k

ap5512 10-23-2012 11:29 AM
Looks like Autoblog is fueling the speculations also..
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/10/22/s...for-brz-turbo/

res 10-23-2012 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji2787 (Post 514942)
It would only be 35k plus otd if you let yourself throw away money and pay markup... I only paid 31k otd for my limited. And that's because I got a bunch of addons that most people wouldn't get. Otherwise it would've been just shy of of 30k
I guess you did not notice that his price OTD is in Canada.

You would probably totally freak-out if you heard the OTD prices in Australia.

Shinji2787 10-23-2012 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by res (Post 514979)
I guess you did not notice that his price OTD is in Canada.

You would probably totally freak-out if you heard the OTD prices in Australia.
Ah, apologies. I did not notice the location in the user profile information thing immediately.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:44 AM.
Page 3 of 9 12 3 4567 Last »
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.


Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.