More like $4500ish more MSRP, and you left out carbon wing, bigger wheels, and tires that are actually pretty sticky.

The problem with media comparisons is that they will drive the cars as Subaru gives them to them, so the tS is going to absolutely spank all other twins based on tires alone.

^^ Ahhh... the $37K selling price he quoted was Canadian dollars, eh? Got it, smaller price gap. I was out the door just under $29K USD.
I understand the value added stuff, altho I'm curious what the forged 18s weigh. Weight is speed and they may not be lighter than the PP 17s. The tires are great tires and will make a diff. on track, but not over the RS4s I use. They'll also eliminate some oversteer on the street which I would personally find undesirable.
I'm running the full airflow mods- ACE A350 & OP, catted FP and Delicious tune, so there will be no spanking, sir! But I'd love to find a tS on track next season and have some cat & mouse fun! =:0D

I've installed the STI springs + STI flex strut with the PP '17 - now I'm just waiting for my 18s along with the draw stiffeners. I really wonder if there will be /any/ difference at that point between the two cars suspension wise.

Part of me wishes I had waited, but when I purchased - I had no idea the tS would make a debut.

Hey man I follow you on Instagram. I think it's cool that you're building your own tS. I would've done the same if Subaru never came out with one. All you're really missing is the carbon wing which is a hit or miss anyways!

Give how limited availability they are, I'll bet that price is firm. No haggling down $500- 1000 like on a Limited or PP.

If it were my dollar, I'd potentially go PP or Ts manual, at as good of a price as you can get. Actually, the PP is probably 98% of what the Ts is , so yeah I'd probably go manual PP at about $28k ….. best bang for the buck. To justify going an extra $6-7k , for the added exterior parts + suspension improvements on the Ts…. not so sure I'd be convinced of that. Some suspension changes can be done on a PP, for $400-600 (springs, anti-sway bar, etc) that would yield a bit better results. Plus upgrade tires at say $600 , total $1200 …. now your 99% of what a Ts is.

Really depends on the buyer. If the buyer is someone that is not going to mod it much then might as well put every penny you can into getting the best car you can.

If the buyer is going to spend the money on mods then get the cheapest car that is still in good shape you can find.

That's what I'm saying. I'm saying, and from the info from Subaru it's going to be the same hp/ torque car between the tS and PP. The main difference is suspension straight out of the package, tS steps it up. If someone bought a PP, then wanted to just do a mild drop....say $500, or a specific coilover say $900- $2000 then they can mod how they prefer. An 18" wheel isn't going to make you faster in a straight line, or not even to apex a turn any better. An 18" tire will be more money to replace, then the equivalent 17" tire.

Heritage Blue cars dropped off today. My phone camera actually cannot capture the correct hue of blue. It has just the slightest touch of green to it.

Not too bad in person.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...a3f36c8475.jpg

https://youtu.be/cwp9-__zvcY

How do we expect this car to hold it's value? I don't want to lose a ton of money with the possibility of the next generation Sti dropping in 2 years... Thoughts???

Always a risk, but I doubt you will get a turbo BRZ in 2 years and definitely not at the same price point.

When buying a new car I always assume it won't. Cars are money pits. We all know this...

:burnrubber:

The BRZ has the worst depreciation of any Subaru, so I wouldn’t expect it to hold value very well. Sure the tS might hold a little more value to the right buyer, but it also costs significantly more to begin with. If you always hold out because of the next cool car or model that might come along, you’ll never buy any new car.

My BRZ is not my daily driver but I've had tons of fun in it, and the FR-S/86/BRZ in general is a very meaningful car to me. I've driven it about 7000 miles and just got it appraised since I'll be selling it very soon since I'll be getting the tS.

Anyways, the dealership (different from the one I work for) offered me 77% of MSRP. If I take into account the purchase price of my car, my depreciation for the 7,000 miles and 2.5 years of ownership is 16%. In other words it's still worth 83% of the price I bought it for.

When I was testing waters back in August, I got 3 offers for $700 below what I bought the car for (not including tax).

Point I'm trying to make, is low-mileage, clean examples will hold their value better and I can see this going on for a long time. Back in 2013 my dad sold our 1-Year Old FR-S for $200 below its MSRP which was what he bought it for. (It did have only 500 miles)

That's still quite a loss when you add it all up, no? Taxes paid were lost too. What was the total loss after selling including taxes paid?

I agree a clean car will hold value better, but most new cars will depreciate fairly quickly.

I haven't sold it yet, but if I sold it in August for the 3 private party offers I got I would've lost $3500 including tax.

Not bad, not bad at all. I would think that your situation is optimal.

The next gen STi is going to be nothing like the current one. There are far too many rumors to really guess what it will be, but odds are it will be a hybrid of some sort just because the entire market is going in that direction. Also odds are high the price is going up by quite a bit.

Not necessarily true, I rarely lose big money on a car purchase. My first BRZ was the only time I felt like i legitimately got destroyed on the resale.

I love the do-it-all nature of the STI, I just cant get over the terrible EJ motor currently. There is a good chance I will want the next generation. The question here is more about the TS, if i buy it knowing Ill only have it for 2 years max will I lose a ton of equity.

Cars like the RS and Type R even the outdated current STI are looking promising in the resale department due to the limited nature. Just wondering if people expected this to do the same.

I meant a WRX STI. I should have clarified, I have already resigned to the fact that the BRZ is what it is.

This is encouraging, do you attribute the more stable value of your car to the hyperblue color? Or has resale been better in later models? My subaru dealer literally would not touch the BRZ when i wanted to trade it in, they actually refused haha. "we have enough trouble getting rid of our own BRZs". This was years ago now.

Sounds like the "huge depreciation" everyone is seeing is with the 86 is basically "normal" at least according to Edmunds:

https://services.edmunds-media.com/i...se-value-2.jpg

And every single person that brags about how they got it new for $5,000 below invoice or picked up that $12,000 steal of a used car are also reducing the used value by a little bit more.

(All discussion centers around less than 60k miles)

This car, in decent condition, will stop around 10-11k.

Anything that isn't a MY13 is going for around 15-18k.

Special versions are going for 18-20k.

Used BRZ PPs are going for 23-26k.

A non-special car almost never holds value. The WRXes from 2003-2007 have hit bottom.

You can decrease your loss by buying cars full through the 5-7 year deprecation cycle with low miles.

Or, buy a truck.

For the tS specifically, since this is what this thread is about, I think it has a decent chance with LOW miles and COMPLETELY STOCK to retain good value past 5-years in the in upper teens to mid-20s.

Time will tell, but I would not be betting on anything better than that. The car isn't that special and limited numbers isn't going to help it THAT much. See the other special editions current pricing for reference.

My car is garage kept and never driven in the rain and I make sure to put that in my ad haha. Also helps to average less than 3,000 miles a year and keep it looking clean. The HyperBlue color is one thing but I think the primary factor that influences the higher resale value is that none of the other used BRZ's at the time (even at dealerships) were used in the same purpose I used mine. Even at the local meets, I haven't really met a BRZ/FR-S owner who bought their car to drive 3-4 times a month.

If the tS didn't come out, I would've kept my HyperBlue for as long as possible, and I bought it with the intention of doing that.

Cars depreciating is normal what I saw from the BRZ was not normal. People who weren't around when the car came out don't remember this was a HOT car. Dealers were selling for msrp or msrp+ 2-3k. after a year and a half the used market was flooded with lower priced FRS'. Those of us who wanted out early got shafted. So no.. what I'm referring to is not normal. After 10+ car purchases I can say that confidently.

People think the used price gradually went to 18k... it was not a slow descent for us impatient folks who bought in early.

I am not sure I understand this comment.

The 2013 MSRP for the base Premium was: $25,495

Source:
- https://www.autotrader.com/Subaru/BRZ/2013

Currently, for the MY13 with 60k is $15,463 (which is the worse, low selling example, currently)

Source:
- https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/instantMarketValue.action

Therefore, that is a 0.3935% depreciation in 5 years, which isn't bad, by any standard.

So, all other irrelevant points aside (buying a new car with mark-ups is always dumb and happens -- see 2003 Evo for a worse example), the car has maintained value well for a non-truck.

It will also hit rock bottom for GOOD examples under 100k miles around 10-11k at 8-9 years at 0.6078% depreciation -- much better than many other more expensive car values.

What am I missing?

You can't compare people who buy on mark-up. That is always irrelevant.

Or, are you stating the fall wasn't gradual? That is never the case when readily available cars are introduced to the market. Only limited availability cars will maintain in the short (< 3 years) run or HIGHLY desirable cars.

The only way you got shafted was if you paid above sticker in the first place. That was the shafting not the resale value. Did you really expect to get more than the rest of those "lower priced" FRS that were inevitably to follow?
Yes, you as an individual may have had greater deprecation than you wanted but that does not mean the car was any worse than most.

For the record, STi, when first introduced, had a HUGE rebound period where the cars had fallen to 16-18k for GOOD examples 7-8 years.

Economy factors included, the price has rebounded. However, you can still find STis for good used prices.

WRX prices, however, are much lower.

RS prices, which is what I would compare a base model BRZ to, have hit floor at 6-7k range... but they are mostly 100k+ miles. The good ones are still around 10k, which is about the going price for an older, functional, lower milage and HP sports car (see Miata for an example).

Yes, there was a sales high followed by the flood, followed by the initial loss for those jumping in quick and jumping out quick.

However, those are always the idi... whales that the new car market is looking for.

Try lightly used sometime, in the 3-5 year range max. If you can afford that, you can afford to own and maintain the car. Else, look at cars you can afford.

Never buy new unless there is an OVERWHELMINGLY good reason, or you are fine with this loss (which you may be at times, and is fine).

My entire point of asking about the TS resale was the fact it was limited availability. This is a special case where a car MIGHT not depreciate heavily in 2 years. I wont sit here and try to make the 2013 brz depreciation curve look "normal". Simple as that, the BRZ took a huge hit because of the influx of FRS' for sale 2 years after launch. Long term depreciation doesn't matter to me, it just doesn't apply to the situation I originally described.

Please read before commenting, you painted the situation and what I was asking completely wrong.

Any difference in deprecation will probably be minimal at best if you base it on the previous special editions. If worried about this subject you are best to stay away from new cars. They always depreciate and it can be unpredictable. Your 2017 WRX could plummet in value when they release the next gen on the new platform. Or it could skyrocket if the new version sucks. You just can't predict what will go up or down no matter what logic you try to apply.

I paid MSRP, sold for about 10k less from what i remember. Thats a significant % loss and what does the fact that the going rate for a BRZ was MSRP+ change? Expectations was a ~5k loss. That's just not what happened. If you're insinuating negligence for buying a brz early that's ok I'm not perfect.

I expected subaru resale value, many of us did. We were wrong, not sure why everything I say seems to be controversial? :)

Agreed on all fronts, just hoping we had some sort of data to back up a possible reason why this might hold value strong. Its always risky buying a car with the expectation of not keeping it long term, that's why I come to you guys for any insight no matter how small.

It is only controversial because of how you presented it. The influx of FRSs are not to blame for the value of the BRZ since they were really the same car. Without that influx the BRZ would not have existed in the first place. Not all Subarus held their value well. If you were expecting the resale of some select high end models then I can see how you were disappointed. Even then a drop of $10K over two years is still right about average and not as bad as you make it out to be.

I think where we differ is in how we see the 10k drop. For a sub 30k non German vehicle that just seems a little crazy to me.

Where the FRS comes into play here is those people were selling lower for obvious reasons. I think it accelerated the BRZ value decline, those of us selling just couldn't compete. If you think about it we made the mistake by buying the brz over the FRS, we paid a slight premium and lost that value immediately because of the shared chassis.

Is the premise that this is a garage queen car that stays stock and sits or is actually used for intention?

2017 Yellow.Series Current Used Avg Depreciation (27k avg) - 9.0756%

2016 Hyper.Blue Series Current Used Avg Depreciation (21k avg) - 26.2%

2015 Series.Blue Current Used Avg Depreciation (21k Avg) - 30.6587%

2014 Monogram Series Average Depreciation (~17k USD): 37.956%

2013 Series 1.0 Used Average Depreciation (~16K USD): 41.8076%

Those are for cars that were used.

I think you can plot a general trend from the limited used car data available and see relevance to limited pricing and where the tS would arrive:

• New - $33,495
• 0 - 1 yr - 30145.5
• 1 - 2 yrs - 24786.3
• 2 - 3 yrs - 23228.7825
• 3 - 4 yrs - 20781.6378
• 4 - 5 yrs - 19491.5443

It is a gross extrapolation based on limited data points. However, I think that is a reasonable guesstimate for a car actually driven. It may be higher, as I was calculating without TTL, but ball park.

Impressive... seriously! I would end up driving it to and from work, the wife's impreza does the heavy lifting in the family. Based on the past limited ed models this might be a bad purchase in my particular situation. I may end up eating the grunt of the depreciation before it levels off.. years after i've gotten rid of it.

My only other option for getting back in a BRZ is to wait for the used market in my area to make sense.. Can't snag a 13-14 near the KBB value. The southern "no salt on the roads therefore our cars are better" tax. I'd love to just have a brz as a second car, the car is brilliant in the curves.

Hell of a post man, Much appreciated. That's as close to hard data on an imperfect science as you can get.

What you may be missing (or may not) is that there were way more FRS than BRZs and all the FRS's were sold at MSRP because of "Pure Pricing". Subaru dealers could put a premium on them above the already higher price because they didn't have the pure price model. When the used market hit its stride two years later, the FRS was selling for a fair used price, and so was the BRZ. It's just that it appeared different because some people were willing to pay the ADP (Additional Dealer Profit) markups on the BRZ.

ADP is like the sales tax on a car...it's money that has no relationship to the resale value of the car.

Perfect example in another model. When the 2005 Mustangs came out (this was the first year of the "retro" model) you couldn't get one the first few months for less than $5,000 over sticker in the Atlanta area. By the time we bought the one MomHawk still drives in Oct, 2005, we got it for $1,500 under sticker price. Her car was worth just as much in 10/2006 as the one some guy bought when he had to pay the ADP in 01/2005.

In 2013 I don't think Scion had an equivalent for the BRZ Limited. Starting price was 500 higher than the starting price for the FRS base model for base model, but the BRZ was higher priced anyway because many opted for the limited (It was really the only reason to buy a BRZ other than the badge). This really has nothing to do with ADP, the market atmosphere just adjusted the BRZ price on it's own. The used market just wasn't willing to pay extra for a BRZ when every publication was telling them "It's the same car".

In 2013 Scion had the series 10