The numbers don't add up, but they never do with the 86 triplets. I keep reading the following BS:

Header = +10whp
header-back = +15whp
ECUTek Tune = +15whp
Intake = +10whp

But in reality all those mods typically equal +30whp and you're telling me that a 4-2-1 HKS EL is worth +20whp by itself? That's my issue with these numbers. No offense meant.

None taken, I'm not the guy who built it. I only work the calibration to get the best gains I can get and those are the results of our work! :) Have you seen our 100% stock calibrations? I get 18+WHP with no mods other than our Stage 1 NA tune...

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

hmmm serious? I was having my doubt's about this tune from a local garage here. +20hp gain from just a tune..
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...14326075_n.jpg
FB Linky here: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=631369983541497

If I'm able to quantify 18WHP on 92 octane, I don't see why 20 isn't possible on a higher octane that you guys generally use right? :) I will note that his baseline is about 10 WHP higher though, so even @ 180, that's not an uncommon number now, on any dyno.

My 2 cents!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

I think many parts manufacturers and companies like to tack on +hp numbers with their products, but I think the most important thing here is the tuning/calibration. What I get from this thread is that the +hp ceiling is definitely higher for the EL HKS header than the UEL Borla header. The tune is the key to a lot of the power gained, but a good and well designed product allows for a higher potential of power to be achieved.

I see. Those are very impressive results but I won't waste any more of your time because I wouldn't use a tuner so far away that I couldn't easily drive to his shop to sort out any potential issues.

Perhaps you could indulge me a tuning question if you're feeling generous. How much higher is the max EGT for your tune vs oem after leaning out the 6500-7400rpm range? I can't quite understand why Toyobaru would dump so much fuel there if not to keep EGT in check for long term engine health. TIA.

Understood - for the most part, you have Tony @FA20Club for your needs in the East Coast. I'm sure he's more than capable of taking care of your needs remotely if need be. This isn't a waste of my time - I choose to be here to answer questions and help out - no one's pointing a gun to my head. :)

I'll have to refer to the logs on that one, but Subaru has always been a proponent of keeping everything rich, force inducted or not simply because they have to offer a x year x mile warranty. With the FA20 being a high compression motor, I'm sure their tuning strategy isn't any different for that same reason.

My 2 cents on that last...


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

Hey Bob, what's your R&R rate on a set of headers? I was thinking of getting a tune from you, but I think I would also probably want headers right away and it would be nice to have a stock dyno and then headers and tune.

From the pictures I've seen of the borla headers I wouldn't be surprised if a port and polish with a cat delete netted more power.... They are simply hideous and poorly welded. I wouldn't pay $200 for the borla headers.

Also HP from bolt ons don't stack much if at all. Especially the header back stuff and intake stuff. Most intakes from what the tuners say make little to no power after you tune them vs stock.

So does this mean with stock intake, it will produce more power?

I'm willing to be less disruption in flow would mean better results generally. :)

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

I would agree that the indication here is that the HKS EL with Perrin OP, Motive front, Perrin cat-back, aFe intake and Drift-Office tune does produce more power than a Borla UEL with unknown cat-less exhaust and intake with a Drift-Office tune.

I forgot his name but there's another guy here with a Borla UEL, header-back exhaust and a different tune making 200.5whp on pump gas. This is why I dislike comparing dyno results but that's usually all we have to go by.


Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure talking to you.

:bellyroll::bellyroll::bellyroll::bellyroll:

Just search and you'll see what I mean.... If you want less expensive options look at Revworks. Or maybe nameless when they come out.

I've seen exactly what you're talking about but still don't agree with your incredibly harsh assessment of the Borla header. It's definitely not as pretty as headers costing twice as much but you might be surprised at just how little hp is gained from a pretty collector vs an ugly one like Borla's. Also, welds don't have to be pretty to be strong. What do you think of this downpipe? A buddy and I fabbed and MIG welded it using a mixture of 304 and 409 pipe with a nickel plated mild steel flange!

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/304...bosetup001.jpg

It may look like shit but it made great power and held up for 5 years and 50k miles without a problem. I'm sure it's still fine but I sold the car. HKS and JDL are grossly over-priced IMO, Nameless is a pipe-dream and RevWorks has a crappy 1 year warranty and a forum member has already sent his back because it cracked within months. Agency Power is Chinese eBay crap and I won't run a "turbo header" since I know I'll never be adding a turbo so that rules out FA20Club and P&L. There is that new "Hotpipes" header from the Phillipines but they're asking almost $500 for a true $200 header with a 1 year "good-luck using-it" warranty.

I wish I had better options but the Borla looks pretty good for $550 ($435 in my case).