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-   BRZ First-Gen (2012+) — General Topics (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=23)
-   -   Should Subaru release a motorsport version of the BRZ? (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3095)

Dave-ROR 01-03-2012 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lfawishes (Post 107222)
The problem here is finding used 2004 sti calipers. There were not that many 2004's, first year. The bolt pattern/hubs changed after. The bring a premium price just like the bbs 5X100 v. 5X114 400-500 vs. 1000

There won't be enuff to go around thats for sure, there isn't 5X100 hardware to be had.

You didn't read my post or his. 04-11 STi/STI Front Calipers fit. 04-07 (at least) STi/STI rear calipers fit.

However, fitting doesn't mean working correctly due to the caliper design and mounting location, UNLESS the STi/STI calipers have a second spot for a bleeder on the opposite end of the caliper. The reasoning for that is that the calipers are differential-bored so they are directional. If you keep the left on the left but move it from the rearward side of the rotor (like the STI is) to the frontward side of the rotor (like the BRZ) the pistons will be correct but the bleeder will be on the bottom, which isn't good. If you swap sides, the bleeder is fine, but the piston bores are backwards, which also isn't good.

So literally the *ONLY* 2004 STI dependant part are the rotors. Nothing else.

A much cheaper upgrade will hopefully be newer LGT front rotors and caliper brackets (and maybe calipers if the BRZ calipers have smaller pistons and/or don't fit on the LGT brackets).

And that's assuming a brake upgrade will be needed. It absolutely WILL NOT be needed for the street, and even on track cars will only be needed if the OEM brakes can't keep up with the repeated high speed stops, assuming the car has enough power to even experience repeated high speed stops without cooldown (assuming track pads and good fluid).

If you are doing it for looks none of this would probably concern anyone though.

Price difference for the same model and size wheels just because of the bolt pattern btw? Example? I've never seen that.

Max Schnell 01-03-2012 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lfawishes (Post 107090)
Yeah, I can tell you know that going about ordering a race car shell form subaru is not going to save you any money. Thats ridiculous does anyone even have a drivers license on here?

Ordering shells like that is for race teams that will be spending 100 thousand dollars a year to compete, maintain and travel their car.

Get real, if you can't afford the regular brz YOU SURE AS SHITE aren't going to be racing one.

Relax man. I think people get too worked up over posts. I know its not possible since I have spent money on modding before. Stupid number to throw out there I admit. That being said I will not pay more for a stripped version. I'd rather sell the parts I strip off to get the stripped version result. Now a stripped down version for cheaper would be cool though I doubt it will happen that way. Less seem to cost more if you follow Porsche formula.

Dave-ROR 01-03-2012 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lfawishes (Post 107263)
No you aren't reading my post. You are incorrect about the 04-07 calipers fitting no problem, the hubs wrong after year 04, it changed in 05/06/07 to what WILL NOT FIT the BRZ. Also they would require the sti front struts

IF you swap to the abudant years 05/06/07 you will need the struts and 5X114 wheels.

Also to swap the rears require a special adapter either way you go

to be clear 05/06/07=5X114 hubs
04=5X100

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1432536

so if you get 04 calipers you are good but need a special bracket for the front ( i assume strut doesnt matter)
if you get 05/06/07 the likely years, you need new rotors=not cheap, strut, and adapter for the rear

at this point you really probably want to go 5X114 and you are going to pay a lot of money for a USED BBK

You are NOT swapping the hubs. There is no need to. The STI caliper bolts onto the KNUCKLE. The 04-07 STI *CALIPERS* are exactly the same (and 04-12 all work) and bolt directly onto the WRX Knuckle, and the BRZ knuckle.

You need new rotors for any year STI calipers as they are spaced off the knuckle to accept the larger 12.8" STI rotors. If you skip that part you won't have much brakes at all.

This has already been done on a BRZ without changing knuckles/hubs by Greddy, just using 2004 STI rotors.

I've seen two stories for the rear.. first is:
The rear STI calipers from an 04-07 also bolt right onto the BRZ, but you won't have a parking brake (due to the drum parking brake used on the STI vs the BRZ using the sliding caliper).

Second is:
You need 08+ STI calipers and redrilled 08+ STI rotors.

Greddy already did both ends of the car, without changing the knuckles or using any special adapters/parts.

Oh and here: http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...cion-fr-s.aspx

Personally the expense of the parts outweigh the need/benefit for me, especially considering the potential caliper issues (differential-bored piston/bleeder issue). The newer LGT fronts are almost as large (12.4"x30) but can use a simple sliding caliper. Yeah, not good for looks, but they work fine.

Even the stock brakes are made for cars weighing in at 3200-3400lbs or so, they will be awesome in this car on track IMO.

old greg 01-03-2012 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scubynubie (Post 107007)
A production car that is street legal, but that you could take to the track or autocross course and be very competitive right out of the box.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scubynubie (Post 106793)
Basically, a BRZ that is as light as possible, and gives you just what you would want if you were building a race car, but none of the things that you would just tear out. And make it light as possible at the same time.

Then your original description is completely inaccurate. Half the crap you want on your stripped out street car would be pulled off and ebay'd on day 1 of a race car build.



Quote:

Originally Posted by lfawishes (Post 107090)
...ordering a race car shell form subaru is not going to save you any money. Thats ridiculous does anyone even have a drivers license on here?

Ordering shells like that is for race teams that will be spending 100 thousand dollars a year to compete, maintain and travel their car.

Get real, if you can't afford the regular brz YOU SURE AS SHITE aren't going to be racing one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lfawishes (Post 107112)
Shells are for race teams with huge budgets, not for a cheapskate trying to get a brz for 10 grand cheaper.

Who in this thread said anything about building a low budget street car? Not Max Schnell, and certainly not me (hint: BIWs don't have VINs). I, at least, was talking about actual race cars, not street cars or tuned track day/autocross cars. And if you were building a race car, and it absolutely had to be an AS1, you would save a considerable amount of time, effort and money by buying a BIW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lfawishes (Post 107112)
LOL, you mean the ej engine mounts? THe brakes, the rims, none of that fits, we don't even know the ej25 would fit especially in turbo'ed form. The fuel system/intake would not work, need custom development, not to mention the bell housing.....the sti is awd drivetrain. LOL.

This is a high hopes and totally silly. If you have ever owned/modified a car you know how pie in the sky this idea is.

Why would you even want to use any of that crap on a race car? (OEM engine mounts included)

coyote 01-03-2012 10:31 PM

Dave-ROR is 100% correct. I'm not sure what the other poster is on about.

coyote 01-03-2012 10:38 PM

Subaru have for a long time sold bare bones race cars. They are for real race teams, not people who want to build street cars. As pointed out, they don't have RIN plates and cannot be registered. Generally they only suit those who are building to GroupN specs as even those cars are full of stuff that a dedicated track car would throw in the bin.

Thought I'd check back on this forum to see if the level of discussion had improved. It hasn't.

old greg 01-03-2012 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coyote (Post 107284)
Thought I'd check back on this forum to see if the level of discussion had improved. It hasn't.

You just need to improve the level of your ignore list. :lol:

coyote 01-03-2012 11:09 PM

You keep reading about it, I'll keep doing it.

Dave-ROR 01-03-2012 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lfawishes (Post 107288)
simple, 05/06/07 sti=brembos and 5X114 2004 sti=brembos 5X100
rear brembos need special adapter read about it!
brz=5X100


2004 sti was smallest for production making the chances of finding their used equip much more rare, and due to its exclusive bolt pattern more costly and sought after. Therefore not a great option. If you don't understand go read the nasioc thread i posted about swapping the brembos, its everything you need to know about doing the brembo swap. So if you can't figure out what I'm going on about, you should do some reading.

and yes a guy was saying he should be able to build a motorsports brz for 15k and just buy the shell.lol.

I could post a number of threads explaining how you can use parts that aren't from an 04 STI too.

Fact is, we are NOT swapping the hubs so the bolt pattern and hubs don't play a role here at all.

WingsofWar 01-03-2012 11:32 PM

if we are talking about brake hardware for late model STIs some modification may be needed in the fronts for the BRZ because the spindles/knuckles are different, its not just the hubs that's are different between 04STI and 05+STI

Dave-ROR 01-04-2012 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lfawishes (Post 107304)
---Do you understand how the rears fit? they take an adapter either way?

Yes for the older rears on a WRX you do, or run the 08+ with redrilled rotors from what I've read. What none of us know is exactly what's needed to make it work on the BRZ, except for the only group who has done it, and has said it was a simple swap of calipers and rotors. :shrug: (of course I fully expect no parking brake on that swap done on the BRZ by GReddy)

BTW, this is from the very thread you linked regarding the fronts:
Quote:

04-08 Subaru Brembo Caliper will swap on the any RS or WRX no problem. You will need the 04-08 Caliper and an 04 Rotor (5x100).
Which is what I said, except that that post was old (2008) so not updated to 04-12 calipers for the front.

Did you read the link I sent? That was about a car (a BRZ) where the swap has already been done.

I have been assuming that you were talking about the fronts also, not just the rears. Was I mistaken?


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