And all Lotus cars are joint ventures with Camry-by-the-billions Toyota, so..?

Have they personally driven the car to justify their logic of comparing it to a Lotus?

The logic being that Lotus makes excellent handling chassis (Subaru makes meh chassis that push like crazy and rely on AWD and turbo power to sort out retarded engine placement, since they rely on grip and torque for corner exits rather than momentum or any bit of finesse), and since Yamaha/Denso (ie Toyota) are responsible for all the important engine bits, it's almost like saying Lotus un-fucked the Subaru chassis and was helped with Toyota un-fucking the engine.

Anti-Toyota article, is all.


Matador, trolling?

(PS, I don't really hate Subaru. More of a reverse demonstration of how their analogy dis-respects Toyota. But the "We did it all!" attitude pisses me off.)

Here's what I think happened, Subaru was upset about the amount of press Toyota has been getting, so they "asked" ;) C&D to do a puff piece, saying how Subaru did all the work and the car is the best thing ever. And by asked I mean paid. You can tell from the tone of the article that it is not an honest review. It is just way too pro Subaru and pro BRZ.

I also suspect they might've thrown out those crappy numbers on purpose to "soften the blow" if the real numbers aren't what everyone is expecting. Now, if it is maybe 2600lbs and $24,000, C&D can say "wow, it is lighter and cheaper than we were expecting!" and people will think it's great.

Hmmm :thumbup: We can dream lol

I'm at work, so I can't see the article. Who is it by?

Couple things:

1) Pro BRZ = Pro FR-S. Toyota and Subaru officials have said that they are same aside from some minor details. So, if the article says that the BRZ drives well, then the article says that the FR-S drives well. The fact that the author mentioned Lotus in the same sentence with the BRZ gives me hope.

2) Subaru has been showing technology concepts while Toyota has been showing styling concepts, so why is it so difficult to believe that Subaru took the lead on the chassis development? Doesn't the car use a flat-four engine? Isn't that Subaru's signature architecture? Sure, the engine incorporates Toyota's new DI system, but developing a DI system is not equivalent to doing all of the engineering work. Let's be reasonable.



Please note: I have no loyalty to either brand, and frankly, I probably wouldn't give Toyota or Subaru a second thought if it weren't for the FT-86.

Thanks Mata-ice for the article! :happy0180:

I'm still taking it with a grain of salt. I smell a battle between two huge corporations wanting their cake and eating it to. Not 50-50 but rather 70-30 driven.

Ok so it's not a hatch but rather a "notchback", push start, 210-220 peaking at 6500k with a 1K of dropoff , 2800 lbs and a base of 28K. Not in this economy Hirakawa-san! :thumbdown:

this thread makes me sad

even if the car handles great, it needs to do all that at a price point. and 28k is not it. especially at that level.

What a joke.

The cupholder warmer sounds like a great mod...I might try it.

Also why does the article say "December 2011" In the bottom right hand corner....we're still in October and when December rolls around printing this article would be kinda dumb considering the real car and specs will be out....:iono:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodical_cover_date

In the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom, the standard practice is to display on magazine covers a date which is some weeks or months in the future from the actual publishing/release date. There are two reasons for this discrepancy: first, to allow magazines to continue appearing "current" to consumers even after they have been on sale for some time (since not all magazines will be sold immediately), and second, to inform newsstands when an unsold magazine can be removed from the stands and returned to the publisher or be destroyed (in this case, the cover date is also the pull date).

ROFL! Americans complaining about income tax... oh my god. Try living in Canada. We pay 30 to 40%. If you make more than 100k it's 40% income tax minimum, significantly higher in some provinces.

FR-S/BRZ will be a little more expensive here too likely.

Epic-fail: If you live in the province of Quebec, every dollar you make over $83000 is taxed at 53%. I'm not kidding.

We pay about the same in taxes here in America. If you make 25,000 a year they take 23.5%, if you make 100,000 they will take 40%.

Do you pay for private insurance? We do. And if you make over $100k here you pay 28% to federal government, in CT its ~6% for state, then add ~4% for medicare and social security (which my generation won't ever see), then pay your private insurance and medical bills. I don't wanna hear it. Pharmacists at my work make about $100k and end up seeing about $1000 a week before medical insurance premiums are taken out.

I stop reading and listening on blogs and magazine a long time ago, I just listen to facts by offical toyota & subaru people, so far I seen toyota has been putting more miles in the nur ring than subaru and Tada has been more active on promoting and keeping the hype about this car. Didn't toyota raced the ft-86 just a week ago, what did subaru do?