Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB
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Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=59)
-   -   Brakes unless at high speed - what to tackle? (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19312)

sierra 10-11-2012 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceywilly (Post 485444)
Yeah but he said

If you are engine braking hard, you are already in trouble. If you try to "engine brake hard" in a RWD car you will spin. When you engine brake you are just braking the rear wheels, combined with the fact that you are shifting the weight forward by braking, you're not going to get much done that way and you'll end up in a ditch. Sure it can be done to bleed off some speed on the highway or coming to a red light but the idea of "engine braking hard" is pretty foolish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-off_oversteer
He was in an emergency situation with no brakes and had to use high rpm engine[hard] braking but normally you would use lower rpm and it wouldn't be enough to unsettle the rear end.
If you are driving hard you would be using both the engine and the brakes.
Clearly you could drop it into a low gear going through a tight bend in the wet and spin out but there are lots of stupid things which would also put you in the ditch, you just don't do them.

ultra 10-11-2012 08:20 PM
Bit of a weird sounding problem.

The brakes on my car are definitely better once warmed up to temp (5 minutes of driving or so) but I've never had a problem with stopping power even from speeds much higher than 130km/h.

If it's persistent then try re-bedding your pads perhaps?

:iono:

seven 10-11-2012 08:27 PM
The brakes on these cars do suck compared to a lot of other things available. The feel is also squishy and vague.
My first planned mods are HP+ front pads/HPS rear pads and stainless lines and fluid. I hope this takes care of the issues I have, because frankly it's saddening to have such a responsive car thats SO GOOD at so many things but still has lackluster brakes.

fatoni 10-11-2012 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2100 (Post 487721)
I don't see the point in "upgrading" brake fluid for street use. Same with lines and rotors. The OP was driving on the street, people. He doesn't need upgraded heat capacity, just more friction.The stock pads are a little silly. I changed them to Hawk HPS for street use - much better. Good bite, good modulation, don't need any time to warm up. Beware of vendor posts encouraging you to "upgrade" systems that don't need upgrading.
theres no point in having a sports car for street use either. its hard to criticize people for not being entirely rational considering many of us are using it for street use since thats not rational at all

seven 10-11-2012 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2100 (Post 487721)
I don't see the point in "upgrading" brake fluid for street use. Same with lines and rotors. The OP was driving on the street, people. He doesn't need upgraded heat capacity, just more friction.The stock pads are a little silly. I changed them to Hawk HPS for street use - much better. Good bite, good modulation, don't need any time to warm up. Beware of vendor posts encouraging you to "upgrade" systems that don't need upgrading.
I ran RBF600 on my Corvette and swap between ATE yellow and SuperBlue?
Why on the street? 3 reasons...
1 - if you do a track day, chances are you're not gonna change fluid after the race, maybe before but usually not after.
2 - There's ZERO harm in running better fluid on the street
3 - It's like $4 a pint more for ATE fluids than DOT3 crap ($8 more for RBF) - if you're that cheap you need to drive a Corolla.

_F-R-S_ 10-11-2012 09:02 PM
Brakes are never usless. its always the driver that is

Dave-ROR 10-11-2012 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2100 (Post 487721)
I don't see the point in "upgrading" brake fluid for street use. Same with lines and rotors. The OP was driving on the street, people. He doesn't need upgraded heat capacity, just more friction.The stock pads are a little silly. I changed them to Hawk HPS for street use - much better. Good bite, good modulation, don't need any time to warm up. Beware of vendor posts encouraging you to "upgrade" systems that don't need upgrading.
Stock pads are perfect for the street. I'm shocked you like the HPS pads, I tried them a long time ago and they were some of the worst pads I've ever used (next to discount one-stoppers).

I agree on fluid on the street, stock is fine. Same with the pads, I never had a problem on the street with them. Sure, on the track they sucked, but on the street they were fine. Hell some members here have used them on the track for a good bit without issue.

Dave-ROR 10-11-2012 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seven (Post 491430)
The brakes on these cars do suck compared to a lot of other things available. The feel is also squishy and vague.
My first planned mods are HP+ front pads/HPS rear pads and stainless lines and fluid. I hope this takes care of the issues I have, because frankly it's saddening to have such a responsive car thats SO GOOD at so many things but still has lackluster brakes.
Mine feel fine. They aren't 911 hard, but they are less squishy than a lot of OEM setups.

Maybe you guys with issues should do some bleeding? My car had some air in it but that was after a few laps on the track, but perhaps you guys have air in the lines from the factory?

Dave-ROR 10-11-2012 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seven (Post 491473)
I ran RBF600 on my Corvette and swap between ATE yellow and SuperBlue?
Why on the street? 3 reasons...
1 - if you do a track day, chances are you're not gonna change fluid after the race, maybe before but usually not after.
2 - There's ZERO harm in running better fluid on the street
3 - It's like $4 a pint more for ATE fluids than DOT3 crap ($8 more for RBF) - if you're that cheap you need to drive a Corolla.
His point eliminates track use. I don't disagree with the other two points, but it's not at all required. If people are generating enough heat to boil fluid on the street then they are doing something wrong.

empower-auto 10-12-2012 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by _F-R-S_ (Post 491498)
Brakes are never usless. its always the driver that is
oh we got a tough guy here.

I know how to brake in a straight line ya mook. My Soarer has Project Mu all around so I know what it feels like to have proper brakes.

usptwins 10-12-2012 12:16 AM
Well, sounds like some people need to learn the limits of their vehicles SLOWLY rather than just going act like an F1 driver and get in a horrible situation. Just my opinion, but don't do something that you don't know the consequences are... Just sayn. Don't be a douche. And as far as the Vendors tryn to sell their parts, well, the guy said his brakes didn't work, so they were tryn to be safe and for his system to work correctly.

JoeBoxer 10-12-2012 12:35 AM
I'll most likely get the StopTech pads when the time comes, i haven't noticed any need yet but this in the description makes me think they may work for you.

Street and high performance pads to fit both OEM calipers and StopTech® Big Brake Kits

Para-aramid composites provides linear response regardless of pad temperature

100% positive molded for uniform friction material density

Specially engineered for pursuit, rescue and emergency driving

Scorched to raise initial cold effectiveness and easy bed-in

100% Asbestos-free formulas

SubieNate 10-12-2012 03:12 AM
I think the stock brakes on this car are more than capable of handling anything the stock tires can take. The brake feel is way better than some of the other cars I drove before buying and my pedal is rock solid. Dunno what some of you are doing to your cars to make the brakes work so poorly. I cruise at ~80 all the time, that's not that far off from 90 and I've never had an issue.

Don't be going 90 when you're going to run out of road. :rolleyes:

Nathan

seven 10-12-2012 03:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave-ROR (Post 491773)
Mine feel fine. They aren't 911 hard, but they are less squishy than a lot of OEM setups.

Maybe you guys with issues should do some bleeding? My car had some air in it but that was after a few laps on the track, but perhaps you guys have air in the lines from the factory?
Maybe I was spoiled by the Corvette's brakes, but the FR-S' brakes don't feel like their performance matches the rest of the car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave-ROR (Post 491777)
His point eliminates track use. I don't disagree with the other two points, but it's not at all required. If people are generating enough heat to boil fluid on the street then they are doing something wrong.
I agree, but it's cheap insurance as well as with any of those 3 fluids you know when its dirty pretty easily. Also if you do ever decide to do a track day or even an auto-x... you're halfway prepared.
Not everyone will track, sure, but it's not a bad thing


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