The crazy part is I loved them with no fade the first three days. They went to complete shit on the 4th.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/atta...1&d=1636838193

Having zero context, the heavy taper on the pad indicates to me that there are a few possibilities here.

- very heavy ABS use
- caliper is compromised and sticking

There is a major tell here:

- In your picture, the left edge of the pad is significanly thicker than the right edge. While it's not a great picture, it looks to be about 2.5mm pad on the left, and 4.5mm on the right


Do you have a track datalog and/or temperature data and/or rotor pictures?

Additional diagnostic steps:

Photos of all 4 pads, from side and pad material face. This will help determine if one caliper is sticking or not.

Photos of the caliper boots: same as above

If both left and right are wearing evenly relative to each other, it's not a caliper. If the wear is uneven, then it is a caliper.

If rear wear is about 30-50% of the front, then something else is wrong. If rears look almost new, then excessive ABS use is the problem.


Pad batch isn't the issue; C2 pads from the same batch have successfully completed 8hour enduros with no pad changes.

So it’s just the way I’m holding it. Largely speaking the pads were pretty even across all four. I would show pictures of it but in a fit of rage I threw them in the trash.

The rears are probably 60% or so.

I get it that it may perhaps be how I’m braking. I don’t feel the ABS but maybe I’m hard on it. All that being said… there is no way these should have died so fast.

Can you go dig em out so we can get more photos?

Do you have any photos of the rotors and calipers?

Any photos of the rears?


Help me help you.


Modern ABS is so good you won't feel it in the pedal; you have to see it in the data. Typically in scenarios like this where pad wear is even, inadvertant ABS over-use is the usual culprit.

If the rotors have radial banding and juddered deposit along the swept path, that's a good indication of ABS.


How much power are you making and what does the car weigh? Fade with C2 is highly unusual. Even guys using slicks don't fade the C2 in HPDE/Sprint sessions. All pads will lose thermal capacity as they wear; this is just a function of mass. A thinner pad will run hotter, and thus, overheat faster. That said, I'm not sure I've actually ever heard of anyone fading the C2 on the 86, even with a base caliper. The fact that the pads ran without issue previously would indicate that it's not a defective pad, as a defect would have manifested immediately the first time they get hot.


Are you gently squeezing the brake pedal or mashing it and hanging on for dear life?

I’m trying to modulate the brakes as I go into corners. I’ve learned early on that stabbing any of the inputs is usually a bad thing :) so pushing the brakes hard but not standing on it then jumping off.

Here is the rotors and the calipers. The car has less than 4K miles on it so the calipers I feel like definitely should be good.

The rotors look like they have cracks but it’s just spider webbing. My nail doesn’t hang on anything.

The only power mod I have are tomei headers.

The trash is gone or I would have grabbed them.

You only got 3 days out of Pmu CR's IIRC?

I have to think that the "Track Mode" is part of it. If you're carrying speed, the brakes are doin stuff... Do the 3-second hold on the left "*car w/ squiggle lines* OFF" button (TRAC OFF and VSC OFF lights will both come on). Or pedal dance.

You may also be being too hard on brakes too deep into corners, try braking maybe a bit earlier and trailing OFF of the brakes more between turn-in and apex. Had two students this year who gained massive time by braking a smidge earlier but getting way more OFF the brakes a lot earlier in the corner. Then looking at some of my own data last event this year, same thing, I gained 4 tenths in two braking zones (of course only in practice and not in the time trial tho)! Getting more OFF the brakes earlier is one of the last keys to getting faster.

I would bet having Brembos might be getting me 2x "normal" brake pad life, but that should still put non-Brembos in the neighborhood of 8 track days for C2 pad life!

Yeah unfortunately all I have as a data recorder is TrackAddict so I don’t have that deep of a level of diagnostic.

I get it I can work on my technique next year for sure. Just having a hard time wrapping my head around spending 100 a day in pads.

Yeah that sucks... FWIW I also got good life out of the Project Mu CR pads (just one set), but they didn't have anything like the bite and feel of the C2s, especially right out of the gate, stone cold.

End of the day some drivers just use brakes a LOT harder than others. Even turning the same lap times in the same car! *IF* it turns out that your fastest/quickest-laps driving style is just HARD on brakes, you'll have to address it with big brakes and/or ducting I think.

Also pad selection is *extremely* driver-dependent, so what works for me and what I like may not work for you or be what you like.

But at least try running with the long-hold on the "TC OFF" button, or pedal dance, and try braking a little earlier and getting off brakes earlier. If you burn through another set in 4 track days, maybe time to invest in BBK or used Performance Pack car!

Can you expand on this?

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/atta...1&d=1637109474

The judder in the rings of the uneven pad deposition indicate that you're very, very deep into ABS. Note the breaks in the rings going around the rotor, as well as the change in deposition as you go from the inner diameter of the rotor to the outer diameter.

Here's my rotor from my 2022 BRZ after running Auto Club Speedway for ~30 laps. Auto Club Speedway is very, very hard on brakes, as each lap for me consists of braking from 128-35, 87-40, 110-35, 112-40, in under 2 minutes. It's a very, very high energy track. Note how my deposition is smooth with breaks, and even across the entire rotor surface. I had a passenger every session.

https://i.imgur.com/N5pgkk3.jpg


My guess is that you're likely an intermediate level driver who's confidence is growing, and are laying into the pedal a bit too deep.

Turn off the nannies, and hire a pro coach (not a volunteer; they're well intentioned but will likely not be able to eliminate your bad habits). You'll both grow as a driver far faster, and significantly cut your consumable use, both in brake pads and tires.

If you prefer to keep laying deep into ABS, buy a pad designed to accommodate ABS use. Keep in mind that ABS use will always result in hotter brakes and faster consumable wear.

Additionally, your cracked dust boots indicate that they've been exposed to extreme heat, which is likely from excessive ABS use, as ABS introduces a ton of heat into the brakes.

For comparison, here's the boots on from my 2017 with BM4, after 3 years of track use, including multiple records, championships, and almost 100 track days.

https://i.imgur.com/pkaAlMo.jpg

Completely intact, and pistons retract by hand, with zero effort.

The tiny cracks (crazing) are the result of extreme thermal stress.

This is what the rotors looked like after 3 years of use on the same kit as above.

https://i.imgur.com/xe7I2h9.jpg