+1
Abarth is still the most fun I've ever had on public roads. Aside from reliability (which I don't think should be that bad, fiat gets low scores but the Abarth should be separate and it isn't, its been on the roads since 2009 almost unchanged, issues should have solutions by now) it will be slightly more practical than an 86 and get noticeably better fuel economy, if you can keep your foot out of it.

Only heard good things about the FiST but not a fan of the interior.

So I figured my 2006 mini had been in production since 2002. They've worked out all the issues. Boy was I wrong. they did put some band aids fixes on a few issues but BMW/MINI ignored or denied most of the major issues. :mad0260:
I might just have to check out the abarth but i suspect it's a sideways move at best for reliability. I asked a fiat dealer about reliability a couple years ago. His reply :"they're Chryslers so they're cheap to fix"


The fiestaSt interior makes me sad. I couldn't look at that every day. I'm not sure I trust ford reliability either. After endless repairs my boss got his entire focus ST replaced under warranty due to a misfiring issue. Now same issue is showing up in the replacement car. Not so sure about the ecoboost engines. Although he does drive like a crazed 16yr old so maybe he's the issue. my boss and another coworker were comparing their focus ST's. One had ST trim on two doors one had it on 3 doors. Hope the factory was more diligent putting the drivetrain together.

Buy a Miata and get a cheap winter beater. Seems like the easiest solution.

I figured I could keep the mini as the beater but insuring 2 cars not as cheap as I expected. Initial quote from Geico for a 14 frs pleasure car and mini DD was not good. I really need to shop around for better insurance though maybe I can find something better.

1) R56>R53 lol had less issues. P.S. IMHO IB4haters Chrysler engines blow (R53)
2) A twin will be more fun than driving a mini cooper if you:

• Dont care that the FRS is slower in DD (concerning torque for taking off, you feel it more in the Mini)
• MPG if manual will be up to 7mpg less
• dont care you are losing 2 seats where a full grown American adult fits
• have roads where you dont just drive in a straight line

Concerning reliability....google more. They are about a 8/10 in reliability, whereas the tritec and r56 (BMW) engine are about a 6/10 IMHO

For the twins change oil at 4,500 miles, flush radiator at every 25k, other fluids at 50k, gas tank inspection at 100k IMO and car should run for 200k no problem. Go the tuner or enthusiast way and it may be less.

I actually recommend a WRX. You can hit about 25mpg and city and 34mpg highway solid if you drive like a grandma!

Then again, if you looking for just a DD to work I recommend a 2001 Corolla. 34 city and up to 45 hwy!

Get a automatic and your mpg will be slightly more. Maybe tops 5mpg more.

Dont forget the ugly new mustangs. Get a base model with more hp and torque and similar mpg.

All of these are IMHO so dont bother hating please.

Long Haul Reliability = Made (assembled) in Japan. First digit of vin must be J.

Best time to buy a car...December 31st.


Any possible poor reliability problems you've read about the FRS/BRZ have to do with early production vehicles...even then, few real problems. Don't buy any brand car during it's lst year or two of a new chassis.

Personal : I drive a 15 FRS, bought new, 14 months ago. 24,000 miles on it now. Zero issues so far...yes that's Zero.

Best other brand made in Japan car which is fun to drive: Mazda (make sure it's a J vin.)
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And comments for 'pushrod'...who's quoted me:

Well I also own a 2005 Mustang GT...built one year after that body style began. Tons of minor issues with that car during it's low mileage, in warranty period. Though gotta admit, now over 10 years old, with 68k miles, no major issues with the Mustang.

As for road salt. I used to live in Rochester, NY. Two used cars there. Got very tired of the constant repair bills due to salt damage of the undercarriage parts. No salt where I've moved to now, no snow, no jobs, yet very cheap food and rent and utilities.

I own an r53 (2006) and an FRS. The r53 has issues, but if you handle the issues it can be very reliable. The FRS is reliable out of the box. When both were still stock, my son and I ran them against each other often. In every case the frs won by a slight margin with both of us driving both cars. He always believed the mini was faster, but the races proved otherwise. You just gotta rev the FRS. Now my frs is supercharged, and the r53 has been modded. The FRS is quicker by a good bit than the r53, but the r53 is way quicker than it was. The r53 was cheaper to mod too. There is tons of aftermarket support for both cars. The suspension mods made to both have made them both much more capable. While the R53 no longer wants to understeer, the FRS is just better. Th mini has back seats that can actually carry people in them(nearly). there is no chance for the FRS in that regard. Both cars have substantial power and handling enhancements, brakes to come soon on them. They are two very fun and capable cars, and both put a huge grin on my face every time I drive them. They are just different. The mini has much better intake and exhaust noise. BTW the mini rotates real well now too, but the FRS does it just that much better. Make the mini reliable for some money, or get the FRS. Both are fun and can be reliable. OP, PM me if you want more info.

My FRS has been mechanically very reliable. It gets cricket noises in the heat of summer, I had a rear end seal replaced, and my 10series illuminated dash panel quit working. The crickets and dash were no big deal, and the seal was barely seeping, and took the dealer about one hour to replace under warranty. The FRS is very easy to work on and everything except spark plugs is pretty easy to get to

I can nearly say the same (nearly...) but let's be real, 24k is not a lot.


This may not be an issue where you are, but where I am, Mazdas are rusty jalopies within 5 years. They are notably worse than other brands of cars around here.

I once shoveled the snow around my roommate's 6-year old Mazda3 and accidentally hit the rocker panel with the shovel. Part of the rocker panel came off.

I did not like the R56 at all. It can easily out perform my R53 but it is less fun to drive. It got softer more comfortable. It lost the go kart feel of the R53

I'm afraid you're right. I'm covincing myself the frs is just to focused. I drove the Miata and thought it had more then enough power with frs I was thinking it needed more power.

I'm guessing you're correct, the Corolla would be a very smart choice and I like the interior but my commute will be a chore not a pleasure. also a coworker was challenging me to which car has had more issues his 06 Corolla or my 06 mini.

I actually love the new mustang in appearance but driving is quite pedestrian. It's just too heavy. Once again power doesn't always = more fun. Despite poor ford quality I'm guessing the mustang will have the best resale of the cars I'm looking at.

Twag4
Dang Your making me want to keep the mini again. It's just a pain because to keep it justifable I have to do everything I can myself. time is money and I'm still at risk of the next problem leaving me without a working car.

I have an R53 MCS with 6MT and LSD. I also have a 2015 FR-S. Our MINI has been pretty good to us with 2 failures (seat lever, steering pump) in 10 years and 75k miles. Both were covered under warranty with the steering pump corrected at 10 years old! That said, they just aren't designed to be beaten on. Engine mounts, strut towers, and body hardware will go if you are rough on them. Our's us a queen: garage kept, female driven.

The FR-S feels much more direct and sporty. The MINI is more charming. We will likely replace the R53 with a new 6 door clubman next year, though. As much as we love the R53, we don't drive it enough because we have a 3 year old daughter.


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I've driven a decent amount of the cars in your list.

My test drive scale of driving joy
Highest to lowest
2016 Mx-5 (by a tiny margin just because of the top down, top up it falls to GTI level)
2015 FR-S
2005 MCS
2015 GTI
2016 Wrx

Haven't driven.
2016 cooper s
2016 Mazda 3
2015 Golf (DSG auto)
2013 beetle turbo
2015 Kia Optima
2015 mustang ecoboost (looks alone make me still want one)
201? Challenger v6 auto rental (way better then expected)
2016 Impreza & Crosstrek
2013 MKZ
2015 renegade



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Mine wasn't too bad at 75000 so be warned.
Also I'm jealous the extended power steering warranty doesn't apply to the 06 steering pump. They didn't change anything for 06 either. It's the same pos. I think my first pump started failing under warranty so 30000ish second pump gave out on me close to 80000, I think my mechanic used a reman for #3 which made it to 105000. Fourth is a cheap Napa reman I installed that has sounded bad from day one, I haven't gotten around to cashing in on the lifetime warranty yet.

Wish I got the m7 strut brace on earlier I've got a little mushrooming on the struts. I don't thrash it but life happens. You can't miss every pothole.
Needs a 2nd oil pan seal at 11000.

Try the 500e.Total blast.

Gen 1 bmw mini Cooper works is the worst riding car I've ever driven. Ever.

One more checking in on having the mini then the BRZ.
2003 mini s 100k+ passed on to my son in VC Wa in 2013 and got the BRZ.
The mini had upgraded SC, Suspension, brakes, exhaust, and more.
70lb dog got in and out of the back hatch easily and carried many "things" over the years. Used the car on the track many times with great fun. I did put a con rod through the side of the block at the track but I think an engine with 75k did not owe me a thing with its hard driving life.
I was considering the new mini but did not like the way the turbo acted on the new engine for street use.(Personal preference)
When I got the BRZ it was much slower than the mini ,but a SC and mods to the exhaust and suspension on the BRZ they fixed that problem. New dog 60lb, rides in the back with the seat down, hatch was easier but this is working fine. "Things" in the back are not as easy, but a 3/4 ton pickup is just used a little more.
I really like the handling of the BRZ, probably because my other track cars are RWD. I do like letting the back end step out. I will say that at lower speeds the mini was more nimble and could be manhandled around obstacles faster. But, at speed the BRZ has great manors and you gain confidence quickly.
Since getting the BRZ I am no longer in Wi for the winter so my experience in the snow with the BRZ is limited, however, when there, good tires and sane driving seemed to work just fine. the same applied to the mini.

I have an R53 2006 Mini S manual. I am looking for comparison in ride comfort between BRZ 2017 and what I have. So, i found this article in google search. I have a few things that came to mind and cleared up MUCH of my worries concerning which car to buy. But it is not like one would guess...

First, Your 4 power steering pumps dying is a result of VERY BAD MECHANICS. VERY BAD. I am a vague mini problem expert at this point and the solution was to replace the pump, remove the steering rack and objects, and soak them to remove road build up. This caused each pump to keep failing. I am surprised it was not 20 steering assist electric motors (it's not a pump) to fail. THis was the fault of a bad mechanic.

Also, the mechanic should have told you that the upper motor mount never lasts and to never bother replacing it, it only leaks its fluid once, but works fine for 150k miles or more.

So, this person might not even be on forums anymore but it shows me a new lesson today. Vast majority of "issues" with a car is the mechanic. NOt the "dealer" or the "manfacturer" it is just the mechanic. There are few out there who can truly fix an issue or know what really needs to be or not be done. I have a mini s for 10 years and my issues have been quite small and infrequent at 171,000 miles of hard NYC driving.

The ride in a standard 16" wheeled R53 Mini is more jarring than a BRZ/FRS. A 15" reduction size I did with more tire still has more of a jarring ride but made the Mini S tolerable. I wish BRZ would have 16" wheels and the top WRX premium would have 17" wheels. there really is no point to such massive wheel sizes on roads that are terribly paved and have no banks and are filled with crappy drivers and weather.

I did necro this thread yes.

It's quite possible to get 16" 5x100 wheels for the twins.
Some people said they like them a lot.

Anytime you replace a very poorly built BMW for anything Toyota or Subaru you are improving.

i for one can tell you, i had an 06 cooper s prior to my frs... AND i miss the shit out of it. i totalled it, apparently the accident was my fault, which i dont remember. i woke up in the hospital after the accident with a broken jaw, shit sucked! but in my opinion, if you can keep the mini and frs, do that. there are gonna be days that you wanna hear the whine of the supercharger! i really miss it, if i could go back to that day, i wouldnt have taken the long way home to enjoy the weather :/

"We helped my son get into a 2015 FRS and at less than 20k miles, the clutch is done. We knew going in this was a weak point but come on, he is a great driver and just drives back and forth to work.....he learned to drive in the Mini above before he got his 3-pedal Jeep (we don't do autos in our house)."

Surely it's not the fault of that 2015 FRS. Either it was purchased used (already worn clutch), a 'friend' tried it out, or son not telling the whole truth.
Have you considered waterboarding ?


Clutch is still perfect on MY 2015 FRS with 39k miles. And I've had zero reasons to take it to dealership for any warranty repairs within the first 36k miles, or even now.
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Edit 12-23-16: Post I quoted above seems to now have disappeared, far as I can tell. I hope that I did not upset that person.


And for guybo, below:

And honestly, regarding my own car: I did have an alignment done because steering wheel got off center (why I have no clue) and tires seemed to be wearing inside edges. I have had moisture in both tailamps and headlamps just recently, but it goes away in time. Other things I've read about in forums, so just live with them...those being high pressure fuel pump crickets, noise whilst side windows roll down, sometimes. No issues with squeaks and rattles in my car as 2013 owners report. Overall nothing to gripe about this car, well so far. Compared to tons of minor issues with my Mustang when it was almost new, this FRS is a breeze. A breath of fresh air. Reminds me of some Hondas I've owned.

I do wish I owned a 2014, before they changed the suspension to attain less oversteer. I'd like to experience those earlier cars.
Don't think I'd want a 2017 as they've made the car even more soft, compliant in it's suspension, and quieter inside with more insulation.

Well the Mini Cooper has a very hard ride I've heard. And the FRS/86/BRZ can give a rough ride on potholed, rust belt areas of the country. Helps me understand why many might like a softer ride for the car. Here we've got all asphalt streets and no freezing, therefore I'm happy with what I've got in a car.

I'm honestly surprised about all the things I heat about the clutch. I'm still on my stock one at more then 60k miles, 35k na and 25k boosted.

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What you hear on a site like this are the cases where people have problems because they 1) mod and 2) come here specifically for help with problems. Also you hear from people who have no problems, but not data and you can't get an idea of reliability at all. It's kind of like when you post on Facebook about how shitty Dodges are and a dozen guys post about how their uncle/father/cousin/friend has one with 150k miles and it has had no problems- nice anecdote but we know it's a crock of shit. Same here- anecdotes tell you nothing.

http://www.truedelta.com/Scion-FR-S/reliability-1096 check out this site. It compiles data from owners. The quarterly questionnaire asks if you've had repairs and what they were and has data from owners and reviews. The Twins are pretty reliable.