Didn't know there were so many riders on this forum. Nice. I'll see if I can stick around on this thread and answer some questions as well.

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Ride safe.

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My advice:

Unless you have a mechanic friend or someone that is very experienced with motorcycles avoid trying to buy used unless its from an authorized dealer. More people than not wreck their bikes and then turn around and sell them. You need to be very astute and know what your looking for when buying a used bike.

As for first bike I'll throw out 2 recommendations:

That Ninja 250/300 is great but a Yamaha R3 is what really catches my eye. Sporty bike that rides more upright and is comfortable. It plenty for street and highway (will easily to 100+).

If you want a little more power without going over the top look at the Yamaha FZ-07. Super great bike that is cheap and offers plenty of power. Its a winner all around.

As for a Ducati Monster, that is a lot of bike and not cheap.
I almost bought a 821 myself, they are sooooooooo damn sexy.
But I read that for commuting they are not that great. They get too hot and the exhaust wraps around underneath the seat and right near your calf.
Lots of complaints about the bike being very hot and uncomfortable unless you are constantly moving.

I don't know about where you live but here where I live people are pretty honest about the history of their bikes.

I dropped my bike once and let the buyer know before hand of the damage it had and the things that were fixed. As do most people

For a first time buyer I'd recommend buying used... the MSRPs on the 300s are ridiculous. Not only that but the low cc bikes for the most part hold their value. I bought my bike at 4250 and sold it 2 years later after thousands of kms for the same price.

The same goes for 300s and 250s. Buy them at a low price, learn on them for a year or 2, sell them and get a higher cc bike of your choice. Though some people like wringing out lower cc bikes.





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In terms of the first and second bike, I am most concerned with the riding position due to my back. I don't think I will ever take the bike on the highway. Will stick to smaller local roads.

I think I will try and go to a dealer since I don't have any friends experienced with bikes and wouldn't know myself what to look for when assessing something used. On used japanese bikes is there room to bargain or is there not much margin to work with?

There's a couple basic things you can check. Tire tread depth, leaks in the forks, rust on chain, any other leaking fluid other than the gas overflow tube are a few starting points. Get maintenence records and make sure oil changes were done before the manufacturers recommended miles.

If the bike was dropped and at what speed it was dropped is a whole other story. You gotta check the frame, shift and brake levers as well as hand levers etc.

If you want pm me I might be able to link you to a helpful forum post on a local motorcycle forum

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You can check out ergonomics for various brands on this web site

http://cycle-ergo.com/

One additional thing I'll bring up regarding safety - I like louder bikes. Doesn't have to be Harley short pipe loud, but will help with people knowing you're around. Good friend of mine used to ride a Harley Sportster, switched to a sweet BMW that happened to be much quieter. Less than a week someone swerved right into him on the highway (survived only because he was sent flying into the median).

Great site, didn't know it existed. I ran my bike history through it, and it was pretty accurate.

http://i63.tinypic.com/2zq7h54.png

hahahahha

The knees are the windshield.

Well, to be fair if you were 12ft tall your knees would be on the windshield and your head would be dragging the ground....

In the picture my head was the optional flipper plate if I just bent back a little further.

Yea, I've NEVER bought a new bike (you think you take a hit on cars when buying new, try motorcycles). What you need is a good local shop that will do a bike check for you as part of the purchase. I do agree with @tennisfreak though, if you aren't willing to do/pay for a prepurchase inspection you should buy from a dealer with some sort of warranty.

Going to a large used bike dealer also gives you an opportunity to narrow down your choices. I'm fortunate enough to live near Wow Motorcycles. What a toy store that is!

I'll throw in another recommendation for the MSF course - I consider it mandatory for anyone interested in riding in traffic.

Don't worry too much about the size of the motorcycle engine, horsepower, torque, weight or any other specs people throw out. It's not the motorcycle, it's the rider. Don't think you'll ever outgrow anything either - again, that's a fallacy to think "It's been now 6 months of riding and I can handle an R6" hahah! Yeah... right. Riding is about your ability, only. It's about personal responsibility, only you and yours alone. Think of this way - anyone who makes a mistake, it's your a$$ on the line. If you're comfortable with that, it doesn't matter what you ride, you need only the right attitude. The mechanics between an R6 and a Rebel 250 are the same. The ergo's are different and the speed 'can' be different, depends up to you. One is more conducive to allow for attention to be focused on your environment (the Rebel) while the other requires a greater attention to detail on subtleties. But that's entirely up to you.

I started off with a CBR600 Hurricane and have been riding 12 years on two continents. It's all the same, doesn't matter if it's a street bike, a standard, a cruiser, an enduro or scooter. You must take responsibility for everyone's actions around you. Because when your ass goes down, who cares about blaming or being right - you're the only one that needs to deal with the consequences. And, yes, it's exhausting.

And lastly, don't forget to practice. It's like shooting or a martial art - your MSF is your yellow belt: basics but you're still going to get beat down. Take it upon yourself to practice all of those drills and maneuvers, read the theory (total control), watch videos (twist of the wrist) and keep practicing with your bike for months/years after the course. Confidence and muscle memory will be the two (also luck) keys to bailing you out of your own or other's stupidity. Treat riding with respect and with enough luck you'll live to put on hundreds of thousands of joyful miles!

Just to add onto your first point. Most people can barely ride a 250 or a 125 to its (or their own limits). Most people will have chicken strips, improper lean angles etc etc.


Just putting my personal experience on it, the reason I want to upgrade to higher ccs is because I want to do longer road trips (in the 2000+ km range). The longest ride I ever did was 7 hours and my knees were on fire at the end of it because of how high the engine was revving for the whole trip.

At the end of the day, if your first bike isn't going to be a 300, think about what type of riding you're going to do. Long trips? Think about a tourer or sport tourer. Want to go fast or be road pizza (I say that tongue in cheek, no offense to the Ss riders I may get a gsxr which isn't the best idea for a bike that does long trips but it's the most comfortable out of the 3 ss) get a supersport. City riding? Get a low cc bike with some decent mpgs or even better get a drz. Want to make a lot of noise and park at coffee shops, get a harley (I say that tongue in cheek as well).

So long as you know what type of riding you're going to be doing, your decision on your first bike will be exponentially easier.

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Oh and I don't know if it was mentioned but if you're a new rider I recommend ABS. I just pmd this to covance.

I had a bunch of close calls where MSF saved my ass in terms of emergency braking, but almost ate shit when the front wheel nearly locked up on multiple occasions.

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Anyone own any Honda scooters like the pcx 150?

A quick search through Craigslist anywhere in the country will bring up a example of someone dishonest that is trying to pass of a bike that has been wrecked.
Heck in my motorcycle forums we have dedicated threads named "The Sh!t you see on Craigslist" because it happens so often.

As for buying used you are contradicting yourself. You say buy used because of the high price new then go on to say that the bikes hold their value so well you can sell it years later for the same price new.
If that is so why in the hell would I buy a used bike for the same price as a new?

I know for a fact (got an offer from a dealer) that I can buy a brand new 2015 Ninja 300 for $4000 OTD. That is a pretty dang good deal.
You just need to be a smart shopper and look for left over models from last year that never sold.
I just bought a brand new 2015 Kawi ZX-10R for $10586 OTD. This was from the same dealer I got the offer on the 300 from.

Maybe its personal preference but I stick to bikes new that are cheap. Be patient and you will find them.

My fault I wasn't clear. If you buy used the bikes wont depreciate and it will hold their value.

If you buy new, which for the most part is at MSRP or just under, your brand new ninja 300 will depreciate on the used market because that's just how the market is, people don't want to pay sticker price for a used low cc bike that they will most likely keep for a year or two... At least in my area.

Ie: This goof who is trying to sell a 2 year old ninja 300 at near sticker price of a 2015 http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sport-bikes/w...ationFlag=true

look at the date his ad was posted...

Right on Freak - I managed to pick up a brand new 2014 Vstrom 1000 in crate on December 14th for $7,299 + TTL. It's a helluva bike and a steal for the money. I've only ever bought used up till then.

Motorcycles depreciate heavily because of buyers/lifestyle remorse. Folks want to get into it, realize riding can be stressful, then get out or leave toys in the garage to rot; then they sell. Stupid but take advantage of that. Although that is somewhat model dependent. I've found certain enthusiast models (like the VFR) can keep a stable price due to its cult following... Man, I love the VFR. Avoid anything salvage title. There are waaaay too many motorcycles for sale at any given time to 'settle' for a salvage title bike. Someone got their money from the insurance and was able to buy back pennies on the dollar - short of having a professional shop do a laser alignment on the frame, you will not know in your brief time with the bike if it'll be 'true' again. Why even risk it? Motorcycles are cheap enough that the market is accessible for anyone. You aren't searching for a clown shoe BMW or some ridiculous low-number specialty product. Keep looking and skip the salvage stuff.

Maintenance is significantly cheaper than cars, too. Search forums, youtube and google how to buy a used motorcycle - there's no excuse for ignorance in today's world. Get a basic set of metric (if you're going japanese) hand tools, invest in some stands and find a free service manual online. Bikes that have been sitting will likely need a tune-up, tires will be the most expensive part so budget for that or haggle.

Here's an ad that looks like it could lead to something:

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/mcy/5449050063.html

'01 CBR600 F4i
It's fuel injected, which is great so you don't have to d*** around with jetting carbs. It's relatively modern in style with original or at least oem fairings. With its age and mileage I'd guess it's been either 'gingerly' used or put away wet regularly - at those miles and your experience level, doesn't matter much either way. Tires were replaced, great. I'd inquire to the title status, last service performed (valves, battery), how long it sits between rides (fuel). Show up with cash and negotiate down to $2,900 flat if everything checked out because christ it's been up for 2 months. Throw some handle bar risers, tank bag and extended windshield on that bad boy and you've got yourself a stew.

Some other bikes I highly recommend for beginners:

Kawasaki Ninja 650r (any year) - My wife has one, reliable parallel twin, easy power band, semi-standard riding position. $2,000-3,500 with under 20k miles all day long. Do an oil change, clean the chain and put on 5,000 miles before even thinking about checking the valves.

Suzuki SV650/S - reliable v-twin, accessible power with good torque, comfortable ergos, lots of aftermarket, easy to sell for someone looking for a race bike!

Yamaha FZ6 - I had one for a couple of years, it's an R6 inline 4 that's detuned for mid-range over peak hp. Very neutral bike, not a lot of character but VERY fast in the corners, has virtually no required upkeep and is damn easy to cover major distance with.

For cruisers - any metric (japanese) v-twin. Pick one, they're all good.

Kawasaki KLR650 - I've always had one in the garage up until the Suzi showed up. These are agricultural machines, think a tractor had sex with a dirt bike. They are awesome. Cheap to buy ($1,000-2,000) cheap to run, cheap to learn on. Just get the doohickey done, grab yourself a larger tank and you're set for the apocalypse.

Some stuff I'd avoid:
Anything with a 'cage'. Most suzuki supersports - they have an oil pickup point in the rear that makes them good candidates for stunters. Cool if you're into that but not so cool to inherit someone else's undisclosed stunt bike. Be weary of honda V four or flat six engines if this is your first bike - reliable if maintained, pain in the arse if not. If someone has had the motorcycle since new, like a '12 ninja 250r, verify all service records to match up with mileage. A poorly broke in bike will always be a poorly running bike.

Your first comment is nonsense. I've bought many used bikes from private individuals with absolutely no issues.
I agree; buy with caution and make sure you get a test ride etc, but you can't tell the op second hand is not an option.

To be honest, with prices they way they are (here anyway) I can save 30-40% of a new price by buying something less than 1 year old! No brainer.



As for the Ducati Monster - I did some training with these bikes... they do not have a great seating position/ergonomics. Definitely better choices out there i.m.o. Ducati's are also not cheap to maintain.

This is a absolutely great bike to get if you want a sport bike that is a little more suitable for beginners yet has more power than a 300 class bike.

Maybe you did read all of my posts and maybe my market is drastically different than yours but I just bought a brand new bike 1 mile on the ODO from a dealer with full warranty for well over 30% off MSRP.

2015 ZX-10R MSRP: $14299 (then think of fees like assembly, tax title license, etc.... to add on top of that price)
I paid, total final line item OTD: $10586

Like I said if you shop smart you can find new bikes cheap and dont need to buy used.

But you can find amazing deals used too.

Not knowing a lot about bikes will greatly increase your chances of getting screwed in the used market though.
Either get a used bike checked by a mechanic, or take someone who knows plenty about bikes to check it out, before you pay.

The post I responded to didn't sound like this one...
But that applies to anything in life. Don't know about cameras? Well you should get someone who does to help you buy that $10,000 Nikon off eBay then shouldn't you :thumbup: :eyebulge:

Cars are no different, you can get totally abused ones both from dealers or private second hand sales.

There is no reason to fear most carbureted motorcycles. Japanese ones, anyway... I've had my '00 SV650 forever, never any issues. Stock it is fine, if/when you mod it's easy to rejet. I did the snorkelectomy mod and got aftermarket dual exhaust and rejetted it myself with ~$10 worth of parts.

Carbed bikes I've owned over the years: '86 Radian, '75 CB550F, SV650, FZR400. I've had exactly ONE carburetor issue: last year at the track I suddenly lost a lot of power, like I was down a cylinder. I thought it was ignition related, but turns out some previous owner had taken the carbs apart and thought it was a good idea to use RTV everywhere when putting them back together. It had a slug of rtv in the main jet on #4. DOH!

Other than that, no carburetor issues whatsoever over 30 years of riding.

But then 99% of my riding has been near sea level. If you do a lot of riding at varying altitude, then fuel injection is probably a good idea.

To add, I also don't plan to do any highway riding or commuting. Just cruising on smaller roads on weekends. So smaller CC is better for this purpose as well right?

Yes sir at least IMO.

Smaller bikes are so light and nimble they are more fun when cruising on the back-roads in the "twisties".

If you wont be getting on the highway going 80+mph then a full fairing bike is not really a necessity either.

CBR300R
Ninja 300
Yamaha R3, FZ-07
Suzuki SV650, GSX-750

Been riding most of my life. Here is my advice to a prospective beginner:

1: Take a msf safety course. They teach good habits, and you'll get a much much much better foundation this way. Having a buddy who has a bike teach you in a parking lot is a bad idea. You'll inherit his mistakes and bad habits, and he won't be as thorough as the msf course.

2: Buy yourself a cheap japanese bike. Preferably a standard or a really non-agressive baby sport bike. Cruisers aren't the easiest to learn on, as the riding position isn't ideal for newcomers. Same goes for aggressive sport bikes. Preferably 500cc or so. 250s are great to learn on, but you may run into wanting to upgrade soon. A 500 is still easy to learn on, and you can totally grow into it a bit. Suggestion: Suzuki gs500 or Ninja 500. Both are absolutely great beginners bikes, (suzuki is a bit better of a riding position, but ninja 500 is fine). They can also be had for super cheap prices since they've both been out forever, and you can get a good example for under 1800 bucks.

3: Don't buy your dream bike that you think looks bad ass. You're probably going to drop this first one a few times. You don't want to learn on something you're too busy babying. Plus, if you buy a 15yr old japanese bike to learn on, you can sell it back for just about the same price as you paid for it, so there's no financial reason to not buy a 'beater' first bike.

4: Don't ride with a group for a while. It can be a bit chaotic. Just spend some time learning basics. When you no longer have to think about what you're doing, then try riding with one or maybe two friends. You don't want to be a beginner in a pack of a dozen bikes, it's a bit unnerving at first.

5: Have fun, and be careful. Wear a helmet. Wear gloves. Wear boots. No shorts. Even a small "off" at 28mph is enough to lose skin and crack your head open. Proper gear goes a long long way.

Avoid hyosung BTW.

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Please do this, I ride and wear all my gear even if I was just going for a couple of miles. I've crashed going approximately 30MPH into a guardrail and managed to walk away with no injuries or abrasions, and I thank all my gear for that. I had a full race suit with back protector, full gauntlet gloves and boots on and the aluminum insert on the shoulder was dented in. I couldn't imagine how it would've turned out if I wasn't wearing my gear.

If you have large fluctuations in the weather, you can buy gear that's designed specifically for the weather conditions. Hell, I rode in black leather during the summer and I felt cool as long as I was moving.

Well yeah.
Black leathers are always cool 8)

Signed up for Basic MSF Course :) though it is out in June...these classes fill up really quick.

Hopefully you get good weather. We got some crazy rain during one practice day. A couple people dropped their bikes.

Good luck with the course and have fun with it. One of the best part of riding is first learning how to ride.

Remember bikes (most of them) use wet clutches so don't be afraid to ride the clutch when you are first learning how to ride. And utilize the rear brake as much as possible during slow speed maneuvers.

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It was nice out today :-D

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...psvasnstla.jpg

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...psihhcnj9e.jpg

What road is that

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Exactly. My mention was due to something similar - somebody turned left in front of me while on a damp road on my way to work years back, and when I grabbed the brakes my front wheel slipped and I went down. Wearing boots, gloves, jacket and helmet. I was an hour late to work, because I pushed the broken motorcycle the last mile and a half. Bangs and bruises, but no split skull, no skin grafts, etc.

The problem was just as much my fault - I should've considered not being seen, and slowed down while covering the brakes. I was just lollygagging and when a panic stop happened, my hands weren't ready so they lunged for the lever, which resulted in the poor brake modulation and a front wheel lockup.
She caused the incident, but it taught me:

1 - to be more mindful
2 - that most accidents happen at lower speeds (not all fireballs on the interstate).
3 - how great proper gear can be.

OP is in NY, I wouldn't trust anyone selling a used bike any farther than I could throw them. Find a friend who knows bikes to check it out with you.

My take on a learner bike is to get a dual sport. Lots of suspension travel for when you do something stupid, good mileage and able to be dropped a lot with no damage.

Safety class goes without saying. After that find yourself a large parking lot and practice for hours. Practice panic stops. Practice balance. Get in the habit of reading the pavement surface - I'm on Long Island and what initially looks like a gorgeous bit of pavement to lean over on and have some fun almost always has sand it in somewhere. Might as well have bearings in the road. If you get a dual sport and can get off road do all this in the dirt and really push your limits. When you fall in dirt it doesn't hurt like pavement.

ATGATT - all the gear all the time. Even if you are riding down the block to get a snapple at 7-11, you don't get on the bike without gearing up. For the lowest entry cost get a textile jacket (hi-vis type), gloves, pants and boots. Alpinestars makes 3/4 boots that are fantastic and go on an off with a buckle. Helmet has to fit your noggin. Can never go wrong with Shoei or Arai, just depends on your head. Always wear ear plugs, you will go deaf from wind noise otherwise.

Single biggest thing is mind set. If you are having a shitty day and are distracted, take the cage and leave the bike at home. Always ride with the mindset that everyone will do the dumbest possible thing and are actively trying to kill you. This will also make you a better car driver. Assume no one will stop at stop signs, will change lanes in front of you without signaling and will turn left without warning. Make sure you can see the eyes of the drivers when travelling in the same direction - never stay in a car's blind spot. When coming up on a car perpendicular to you figuring out if they are still moving by looking at the car vs background is tough since you are continually moving forward and causing a perspective change. Look at the wheels of the car for an indication that they are moving or stopped. Driving through traffic lights, even when you have had a continuous green, look both directions for cagers on their cell phones ready to run the light.

Beginning of the last point is relatable.

Got pissed off, left for a ride, locked the front wheel when I braked hard going down my driveway.

Still ended up going for a ride but just don't do it cause it might cost you. Make sure your head is clear.

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Anyone doing demo rides?

Just did a suzuki one and I test rode the 2016 Vstrom 650, GXS1000F and a GSXR 750.

The Vstrom was whatever. It's way too tall, I'm 5'8 and couldn't even flat foot. It's a bit torquey I guess. It'd be a good bike for highways and long trips but not for stop and go riding. The mirrors made the bike feel super big on the road.

The GXS1000F was terrifyingly fast. The suspension was terrible but that's definitely a quick bike and it was comfortable too.

The GSXR 750 was fast, had great handling and the ergonomics were good since they gave me a neutral spine position. But damn my wrists were on fire after the ride.