power production has zero, nada, nothing, zilch, to do with cylinder layout. NOTHING.

head, intake, and exhaust design make power.


UGH.

-Mike

Know what else makes power?
MY STEREO!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z33tH-JdPDg

Revolutions also do, hence one could argue because of revolution limitations in certain configurations, power production can be affected.








:bellyroll:

Comp ratio make power difference too. Look up JP s2k & US/EURO s2k. One of the main difference in the engine is comp ratio (11.7:1 vs 11:1). Because of that, it lost 10hp. s2k owners here correct me, if I'm wrong.

^ Technically, it increases torque.

Ok, I guess I understand now. Somehow I don't see Porsche teaming up with Toyota anytime soon haha

I think, you and me are both correct. Here's US & JP ver s2k spec (AP1)
Comp Ratio: 11:1 vs 11.7:1
HP: 237bhp vs 247bhp
tq: 207N-m vs 218N-m


Oh, I agree w ya on that one.

:word:
Compression ratio and revs are head design. (ok yes piston; but otherwise come on)


*sigh*We've been over this before. Subaru doesn't really make any NA performance engines - and as such aren't comparable. Boxers have just as much potential as any other engine, its just differences in packaging and balance.
If you want performance boxers, Testarossa and Porsche are two quick&easy examples.

About that bolded part... You sure about that?
There are a lot of different kinds of engines.
:popcorn:

You realize that Toyota and Porsche had a memorandum of understanding in 1990, right? Toyota taught Porsche the entire Toyota Production System and was instrumental in its turnaround. There's a reason Porsche has the fewest flaws per 100 new vehicles, ahead of Lexus.

Landcruiser $66K -> Lexus LX $77K
Sequoia $39K -> Lexus GX $52K
Highlander $26K -> Lexus RX $38K

The same holds true for all shared Lexus/Toyota vehicles. If Toyota were to make a new Supra, it would almost certainly be a V6. Therefore, it would share chassis with the IS350. So we'd be looking at a little over $30K for a base Supra.

Perhaps Toyota would want to balls to the wall and drop 400+hp in the Supra. In that case, they would certainly use the 3UR-GSE V8. That means a $50K Supra. Toyota would not price a Supra above a Lexus with the same motor. This is marketing 101.

But Sequoia is twin bro of Tundra. GX is twin bro of Land Cruiser Prado.

EDIT: I don't think Toyota will use the same motor because they need to meet to regulation is a few years ahead. They will tune up the engine or design a new one.

Hm... I don't know bout that. I can't really see new Supra price tag to be around $30k. $50k~$60k is more believable to me. Specially Toyota knows that they cannot mess w the Supra name and Supra's history.

Just say Toyota made new Supra w v6 twin turbo pushing 488hp/441tq weighting bout 3200~3800lbs and starting price around $52k~$62k. Bout $20k cheaper than GT-R, but pressing bout same amount of hp/tq. Bout same price tag as M3 series, it'll be perfect for comparison.

I really hope Toyota makes another Supra, it's been too long of a wait.

Perhaps they are secretly making one but are trying to perfect it.

The new GTR "skyline", has come out, now there's rumors that a new rx-7 may come out, maybe this will get the ball rolling.

Don't get your hopes up til this FT86c come to production and goes well... so looking at another 5~10yrs (that's my opinion anyways).

Well, given the lack of explanation of what you're asking, so I'll just assume you're being pedantic. And I'll still hold to what I said.

Boxers have just as much potential as any other format of traditional otto-cycle engine. period.

Supra = Flagship Sports coupe

IS-F = C segment Sports sedan

Capisce? The motor is not the ultimate determining price of a car, engineering economics 101. Basic Logic is of course a prerequisite.

Toyota knows who buy their cars, and they are not going to make a Z competitor with an NA V6 and call it a Supra.

Sorry, I screwed that up. The GX is based on the 4Runner (not Squoia). The Land Cruiser Prado is a 4 Runner version for some foreign markets. NOT the same as the Toyota Land Cruiser here. The LX is the Land Cruisers stablemate.

The IS-F is a little more than a sports sedan. The IS250/350 fills that standard niche. The IS-F is clearly positioned against the BMW M3's of this world.

It's possible they'd aim higher than the IS-F with a Supra (I doubt it), but then it would come with an L badge.

Name one example of a Toyota that costs more than a Lexus with the same engine/chassis. The Lexus is alway more expensive for very obvious marketing reasons.

People in my original country drive both LC Prado, and GX. They are almost the same to me. :D LC and LX are very identical in some categories tho.

K, I can think of one. Toyota Aristo & Lexus GS. I'll use 2nd gen Aristo & GS. 2nd gen Aristo & GS used same chassis. Aristo came w one option on engine which was i6. GS came w 2 options of i6 (GS 300) or v8 GS (400). Now you want to compare same engine & chassis, so I'll use Aristo vs GS 300. What's the price tags? iirc GS300 price was around $38k (so Wiki said), while Aristo price was around ￥4,360,000 (+-$43.6k Toyota Aristo).

anyways, you know that it's pretty pointless to compare Toyota & Lexus.

Comparing the prices of cars in two different markets is completely invalid.

Im pretty sure it isn't the Lexus Supra (sounds stupid actually lol).

The way I see it, the Toyota Supra is allowed to be balls to the walls expensive. It'll have performance to match.

Lexus Supra should be the next gen SC. FT-HS concept in 2007 is most likely to be next gen Supra, and it equips with 3.5L hybrid drivetrain which is good for 400hp. Late last year, There was a rumor that the next gen SC due in 2012 or 2013, and it will also equip with hybrid drivetrain.

This is interesting news I hadn't yet heard! Given the fact that in years past the Supra and the SC series Lexus' shared the same drivetrain / platform, if the upcoming SC model does infact use the drivetrain rumored for a new supra, it would be strong evidence to support its return.

Basically, if the new SC uses the 400hp hybrid setup, Toyota already has the powerplant necessary for the new Supra. They've just got to design a body for it. You got a link to this news?

Comparing Toyota to Lexus is sensible, since they are the mass market and premium brands of the same concern.

But you know what's pointless? Converting JDM MSRP at market exchange rates to compare prices to a USDM model. That shows you really have no clue.

Example:
JDM Lexus GS 350 ¥5,520,000 => $59,721
USDM Lexus GS 350 $45,600

K, that's my mistake and I'll take that hit, but current currency, of course ￥ > $. The reason why I use 2nd gen Aristo is because Aristo is GS. But you know, I guess I used wrong example.

You want the same currency? Fine, I'll bite on that

'09 JDM Lexus GS460 = ￥6,750,000
'09 JDM Toyota Crown Majesta = ￥6,850,000

and lets compare the highest package/version GS460 & Mejesta price tag

'09 JDM Lexus GS460 Ver L = ￥7,750,000
'09 JDM Toyota Crown Majesta F Package = ￥7,900,000

they both has FR layout, sedan (90% same chassis: Internal chassis is same, but external chassis has minor difference), v8 (same v8: 1UR-FSE). Is that good enough?

I found this: http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...aspx?AR=247739 . Autocar reported that Next gen SC will use hybid 5.0L V8, the 5.0L V8 which is found in IS-F.

You know what really is pointless? Comparing the Supra to the IS. As OldSkool would have noted, an SC to Supra comparison is far more valid.

Know what really is pointless? Using OldSkool as an ethos argument. It's like saying "Well my buddy thinks this car is super kewl," and expecting to instantly sway your audience. Not to mention, you're using something OldSkool didn't even say yet.
:sigh: I sincerely dislike ethos arguments... almost as much as pathos arguments.

Read? He did say it.

Wow we really need some new info on the FT-86 cause we're getting way off focus.

I think there will be news in up coming SEMA or LAAS. You can't wait for it, neither do I.

When are those on?

iirc SEMA is Las Vegas (NV).
LAAS is @ Los Angeles (CA)

Cool, you know when they happen?

SEMA is first week of Nov. LAAS is mid of Mov.

I want to go to LA already, but I will have to attend many classes, dammit. I also expect to see the new GS there too.

Sadly, prob I gonna miss both of em. I'll still be in Japan.

But you can attend Tokyo Auto Salon, right?
just DAMN MY F!@#$%^ COLLEGE LIFE. I can't attend any major autoshow.