Not saying it's cheap, but I am saying that it's inexpensive for what you get. If you really think about it, the lowest tier car Toyota sells is the corolla. The range of this car is between 17-21(ish for non-xrs versions).

Now think about for 4K more you move from a super basic econobox to a "sports" car.

Now people always forget that quality always costs money.
Toyota made a reliable (decently), well made with decent material (not saying perfect, though i challenge you to find a perfect car), and ****FUN*** car at 25K.

I say they did a pretty good job.

yes, compared to any other new car you are absolutely right.

For comparison, the 7th gen Celica GT-S and RSX Type S cost about $30k Canadian new. In 2001/2002. Factor in inflation, and that translates into $38,945 (according to inflation calculators).

So yeah - that's pretty cheap (in Canada, a new Limited costs about $31k CAD)

I don't think what they wrote is that mind-boggling. It's just a different spin on the same concept.

Everyone said since the beginning that the FR-S/BRZ is exceptional in terms of its handling, feedback, and seating position. That has not changed. And basically average when it comes to the engine and interior. That also has not changed.

Last year, that was good enough for whatever reason to make their 10 Best list, and this year it's not. Their 10 Best list has always been far too general/vague for my taste. If anyone makes purchasing decisions based on this list, I think they're insane to be honest.

This is not news. People have to look past the numbers to understand the design decisions made when building this car.

If Toyota/Subaru wanted the car to have more power like the STi or the Supra, they would have done that. If they wanted the car to have some torque in the midrange, they would have done that. If they wanted the car to have more grip like a Cayman, they would have done that.

Toyota and Subaru both have the resources to build pretty much whatever car they wanted, but they CHOSE to build a car that slides around a bit at low speeds.

Again, none of this is news.

no its not all of a sudden and it wasnt really missing. they said the same thing in the long term review seven months ago about the brz limited.

The shine has worn off so they start nitpicking all the little faults. It is just an excuse to move on to a new shiny toy. Magazines do it. People do it. Those that bought the car for the right reason will still be here and enjoying it years from now.

Eh, sounds like they got caught up in the hype. I knew what I was getting and am still extremely happy with it 18 months later. Oh well, that's why there are so many options on the market. More power to em and all the other people selling their cars so quickly.

This will make you guys feel better

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52383

Gonged? I have heard no gong. Not from me, or any other FR-S owners I know. If they're just noticing now that the features are a little spartan, they weren't very observant when the car first came out.

I have been wishing for a car manufacturer (any manufacturer) to make a car like this for 25 years. The original Miata was close to my ideal. I owned a 1990 for a bit, but didn't like the rooflessness. The late 90's Miata coupe concept got my hopes up. :slap: But, it didn't happen. Not until THIS car has my ideal car been made. A driver focused, trackable, daily driver, with a roof.
The FR-S actually has more features than what I could want. Cruise control? Power windows? Power mirrors? Power steering? I didn't ask for any of those. But I must admit, power windows are nice for the Tim Hortons drive through, and they got the power steering just right. It's maybe a little too light, but has great feel. My RX-7's, MR-2, and Miata all had no power steering. This car doesn't need it, but they did such a good job, I won't knock them for it.
This car is feature laden if you ask me.

Gonged? A flash in the pan? Had it's 15 minutes of fame? :bs:
Not for me. It gets better every time I get in it. :clap:

It would of been better if we got an proper engine sourced from Yamaha.

Yeah let's pay Yamaha a couple of million $ to develop and engine when we have a workable one sitting right here. You have no idea the cost that would add to the car.

Engines are built with small changes for years because replacing a complete machining line costs $200million and up. Factories are expensive and they're gonna milk every $ they can out of em until they simply can't buy the parts to fix the machines when they break.

The 240SX came out 25 years ago! How did you miss it?

What I find strange is that there is a lot of used FR-S. The hype had me believing folks was gonna be in for the long haul. It had the most hype ever I think in the car industry.

Reasons for sale/trade:


its too slow

its too small for me

i have winter

i'm not comfortable with this much attention from other men

lol i can't afford it,

Subaru needs to fix the chassis so it handles properly.

I can't put up with the squirming under power.

I'm already getting bored with the juvenile handling of my BRZ.


take your pick

Here are my thoughts after almost 50,000 logged miles.

1. The mpg is great for as much fun as it is. Im averaging mid 30's on the freeway, and high 20s even while getting on it often.

2. It's surprisingly comfortable for longer trips. I travel throughout the Midwest on 500+ mile round trip drives monthly, sometimes multiple times a month and it has yet to hurt my back or made me sore from an 8 hour drive. The wind noise it a little higher than I would like, but a nice set of ear plugs gets rid of that, and should be worn on long trips anyway.

3. Bumping to E85 and making great NA power, adding a stiffer suspension, and all the other goodies this chassis is still more than I need for daily driving and is great for an experienced, but not professional, track/autocross driver.

4. It STILL turns heads and starts conversations everywhere I go.

Does a light weight chassis which was designed for NA get outpaced when doubling the HP with non factory forced induction? Would anyone be surprised by this?

I still love this car, love Subaru and Toyota for releasing it and I find it laughable that C&D talk about how everything about this car is bad, yet Top Gear lists it as one of the top 50 best cars in the last 20 years. More and more Im viewing American car mags as the equivalent of nightly news...really not worth tuning into.

Brilliant chassis and great styling at an affordable price point earned one year as a 10 Best. Serious lack of refinement along with mediocre results in performance comparisons made it a one year wonder. The car is very heavily biased towards performance attributes at the expense of others. Fine by me....that's why I bought mine but C&D evaluates the whole package from the perspective of Joe Public.

The true brilliance of this platform is how well it adapts to aftermarket improvements. Add more power, stiffer suspension, stickier tires and the whole just keeps getting better. Every track day I constantly have people stop by to see my car and say the same thing..

" I thought these things were slow ????????"

Add this to the list.
I bought the car because everyone told me it was cool.
I also want to be cool like everyone else.
Aw man the car everyone else likes I don't like I'm going to sell it and buy an m3.

Sub note
To all those complaining about power need to drive a 2.0 vw jetta (not diesel) then come tell me about horsepower. I feel like im driving a damn rocketship compared to that pile o crap.

Had one. It wasn't missed. I just didn't like it very much. Sorry, no offense intended.

I laughed.

For me, it's because of the hype that I was guessing a lot of people would turn around and sell them. The thing was being compared to Porsches and every review said "wow it's so fast around turns!" "It's so much fun to drive!". Then people buy them and realize that it accelerates on the highway like a dying turtle and they get embarrassed in front of their friends with Mustangs and Camaros.

I wouldn't really pay much attention to the article OP posted. It looks like they're just calling out every nice car of 2013 and saying that it isn't good. Come on, how could you say the Miata and Mustang GT weren't always good cars? And everyone absolutely loved the Focus ST. It seemed like the best fwd car released in a long time.

They're just splashing around in the water here.

That is the whole point of the car. The R&D was spent on handling, cost were cut elsewhere to keep it at a certain price point. Knocking it for that after you praised it for the very same qualities is fucking retarded.

Yeah it's no fun that they feel the need to pick on the car but I think they offered the snippet to explain WHERE the FR-S/BRZ is when it's so popular; see the last sentence of the intro. It's very backhanded though, Eddie Alterman must have been having a shit day.

It boils down to one thing, there are no other comparables to this car aside from the ancient MX5.

So its easy to get excited about the concept of this car. Reality is it falls short on so many levels. You just need the perspective of spending time in other drivers cars to see it more clearly. When I was doing my bitch fest review, I had just come from multiple S2000 ownerships, Exige, etc etc. Almost 2 years later been working on fixing up a 98 Prelude for my mom, and after driving it for a month the FRS is even more disappointing. When I find things in a 15 year old car that are better. (excluding wrong wheel drive)

Twins, great idea poor execution. Half baked sports car.

reviews can be taken in for the knowledge and keeping an open mind. Regardless, the most important opinion is your own. I love my car

frs is best. so handling. very wow:happyanim:

Is there a car you would have rather have bought for the same money? I am curious. I have watched your review videos, etc. and am interested in these sorts of things. Having bought the base FR-S, I am not sure what I would have got instead except for something used. Having much more experience than I in these sorts of things, I am curious what you think overall as to a better alternative.

Dudes are stupid, end of story. The only thing that bothers me SOMETIMES is the... What's the stock touchscreen called, BeSpoke? When I pick a song and it plays a random song instead of the one I wanted to play. Other then that, the crickets=fix=drive faster or turn up the radio, or wind down the windows. Love everything else about the car.

I find it interesting that none of you quoted the last line of the blurb "keep one in the garage for canyon carving or track days" or something along those lines. They never said anything was bad, just that everything was average.

There is primary one reason I own it, and it mirrors what you said.
Nothing else new and cheap on the market right now. It's like we are in transition period. Drove the Genesis 2.0R the 3.8L, the Mustang V6, 370z, MX5, Elise, G37s. All had their strong points.

Really for a cheap drivers car there isn't any other choice. Thats the problem though, it's kind of like settling because there is other option.
Clearly the FA20 is now turbocharged and DI by Subaru so all of the main problems should go away somewhere in the next year or two.

Thank you for your response. It is appreciated. I had driven a lot of other cars as well prior to getting the FR-S and though it lacked in certain areas, I just had too much fun with it. I am excited for what the future versions hold.

Seems like an accurate summation of the vehicle based on my year and a half of tenure.

The telling will be in the remaining 8.5 years of ownership...if the car settles down and does not leave me on the side of the road, rust like an MG or eat expensive components like engine and or transmission, I will be happy. I drove a Miata for ten years (also a first year model) and it was an anvil when it came to reliability and lack of corrosion.

I somewhat agree with C&D. Up until this September, the FR-S was my second car. Whenever it was below 50*, it would be holed up in the garage.

However, I sold my daily in September without having another daily in my sights. Due to that, I've been forced to drive the FR-S through the beginning of this winter until I find the right car. Maybe it's the way I've set the car up, but it just flat out doesn't work in the winter for me. I'm also incredibly anal, so having to drive it in the weather is really getting under my skin.

Ideally, I'd already have another daily and the FR-S would once again be in the garage, only to be driven on nice days when I can fully enjoy it.

Lot of fanboi responses in here, claiming that C/D is just trying to drum up sales by saying things like this. Most of your arguments are proven wrong by the fact that C/D has kept the MX5 (except for this year) on the list for a very long time. (if we're just talking about inexpensive drivers cars).

Not saying I 100% agree with C/D but they have a point.

Honestly I don't have a problem with the BRZ's interior quality and amenities (for it's price point). What really bugged me, a lot, is the engine. It's a dud. Sure the power is fine, but I don't get very excited revving it up that much. The sound is unappealing and it's a bit rough.

Compare the FA20 to any Honda VTEC engine and you know what I mean.

I guess it really is a modern day 240SX :bonk:

Well there is one thing we can agree on, losing the Boss Mustang was a damn shame.

Yeah, although that came as no surprise. Ford declared early on that, like the original in 1969-1970, it would be limited to two years.

Alas, they kept their "promise."

We can only hope to see a Boss variant in the latest iteration of the Mustang. I'll bet we do, and probably sooner rather than later. :thumbsup:

Oh ok, I get it now.

My knowledge of Mustangs is pretty limited. I just saw the Boss and it's the one that people say I would enjoy. Something about a Track package that has a bitchin' splitter and nicer dampers.

I saw the curb weight and quit paying attention.

I think people are forgetting that some of the new added cars are simply awesome, and when the list has to stay at 10, some awesome cars, unfortunately, have to get bumped. The new Corvette, Mazda 3 and 6 were added to the list. I think the only truly unfortunate addition is the Caddy CTS, but whatevs. I think the list as setup has too much... sedan in it. Not a ton of variety. I guess they figured they had to make the list more representative of how Americans should shop without giving up large sized families (or bodies).

Luxury sport sedans:
-Audi A6
-BMW 3/4-series
-Cadillac CTS

Normal sedans:
-Ford Fiesta ST
-Honda Accord
-Mazda 3
-Mazda 6
-Volkswagen Golf/GTI

Don't over analyze this. Magazines are in the business of raising pulses and creating excitement. They do this in several ways:
1. By hyping new supercars and having sexy covers.
2. By overhyping ordinary cars like the BMW or Audi because those appeal to people with a lot of money to spend and stupid expectations about how happy they will be.
3. By creating controversy by criticizing overhyped cars that are getting a little old in the editorial cycle. The FR-S/BRZ is officially a bit old and their owners need to be poked and riled so that they buy new cars.

Basically its just a bunch of immature not-really-jounalists playing games with the readers. The amount of real content in Car and Driver is really just a tiny slice. The rest is just about motor heads trying to hold onto their silly jobs.

It's too small and you have snow? Those are 2 things you should have known before you even bought it. Too expensive? Same thing.

Bad handling? In fact, the handling is the best aspect of this car, so I don't think you know what you are doing with this car to be honest.

Not enough power? That's true is some point of view. But that is easily changed, and it is probably what they expected people to do. They made an great platform for you to build on, instead of charging you $40,000 up front. That may not be for you, but that doesn't make the car bad.

Uncomfortable with attention from men? Well that's not Subaru's fault.