Nice 1 davey

Mates. I currently drive a 99 wrx. to be honest, there is nothing wrong with my car. It runs very good. I was in the market for a new car because I wanted something different. I think that toyota and subaru's marketing strategy in Australia is very poor. I'll probably stop looking out for this car and be happy with my WRX. In my opinion, all cars are simply overpriced in this country and we are being taken advantage of. Good luck to you guys whenever they do decide to release a price.

Another thing to consider regarding importing of goods is the exchange rate of purchase.

Now we know that cars don't normally drop a tonne in price for consumers but for dealers and importers it does vary a fair bit.

Assume for a second that Toyota buy these 86 at a conversion rate of 1.07 (aus=1.07US or Aus = 73yen) and the price is set at $30000.

Now if the $$ goes up, say around 1.12 or 78yen all of a sudden these cars are cheaper to buy/import but yet we the customer still pay the same which = bigger $$ for Toyota Aus, but it works the other way too, if the Aus $$ drops its ass then the cars cost more to import.

There would be a general average conversion figure they use and Toyota would have to allow for the ups and downs, meaning to cover their arses we usually pay more then we need too.

Its likely that we will see that maybe in 1-2 yrs time the 86 will have free ORC to keep the hype up and keep the flow of cars into Aus, no different then any other manufacture, selling last year models cheaper for the new years build plate to come thru.

Another reason not too buy straight away i guess. Give them time to iron out bugs too.

not quite. All companies that buy foreign goods at such high quantity will hedge the currency to reduce/eliminate currency movements lost. as the article posted above indicated, it's not unusual that manufacturers hedge the currency months in advance.

the price of the cars are set with the exchange rate hedged. while AUD gain against whatever currancy that they need to make the payments in, they still need to pay whatever the exchange rate hedged. therefore until they hedge the next batch of foreign currency, they still need to pay whatever amount that was hedged in the last batch. so they aren't really ripping customers off and not passing on the AUD gain becos they don't have any gain until the next time they hedge.

while i'm fine with the above practice, i am not happy with those companies that take advantage and put price up immediately when AUD goes down.

Very big large Mathematical equations are used, much to big for my pea brain.

lol hedging, why do they complicate things 100x more then it needs to.

haha. the concept is not complicated. the workings are tho.

in simple terms, you entered into a contract with a financial institution (eg. a bank) to buy a foreign currency at an agreed exchange rate (plus bank fees obviously lol) at a future time. then during this period, whether AUD goes up or down won't effect you.

if AUD goes up then u will "lose" (ie. you need to pay more to buy the currency than you will need to if you didn't hedge) but if AUD goes down then you will "gain".

once currency is hedged, manufacturers can set the selling price of the product they sell, free of any currency movement so the price can stay constant. obviously there are other factors that will effect price but FX will not be one.

Its likely they cost on moving average.

In short, they win some they loose some whilst maintaing a flat rate list price.

So yes there are periods where units are sold at a larger GP and there are periods when units are sold at a lower GP (sometimes loss)

in the end the GP is the healthy for the company.

actually not quite.

once fx is hedged, they know immediately the currency cost and will then set price according to that. their margin is then set unless their price is changed and then the cycle continues for their next hedge.

in theory, as currancy flutuate they would "lose some and gain some" but in practice there is no gain or loss as currency no longer flutuates once hedged.

also as AUD gains, manufacturers usually add more features than reduce price becos it stablises the used price. providing cheap finance deals would give the same effect: cheaper overall cost while maintain stable used car price.

do people really not think that the price is so much more higher due to taxes and Australias protectionist policies?

take a look at European cars? it been going on for years so the people that think toyota will stick by there word then there dreaming.

I'm sure Japanese cars cop similar taxes

exchange rates, hedging and different markets aside do you really think it would equal 30-40% more than the US price? a large percentage has to do with the protectionist policy. This fact is not hidden and rather supported by the government.:mad0260:

Currency is only one fluctuating factor... I wasn't just referring to currency.

The Mazda MX-5 starts at MSRP $23, 470 in America and MSRP $42, 460 in Australia. The Australian dollar is also slightly higher valued than the US dollar. If this is any clue, the 86 will probably cost at least $42, 000 here before on-road costs. :|

America also has much more sports coupes available for less than $25, 000 which aresn't sold in Australia at all (Mitsubishi Eclipse, Hyundai Genesis Coupe, Camaro, Mustang, Challenger etc.).

The only coupe for less than $25, 000 in Australia is the Kia Cerato Koup. lol

there is a Veloster now at $24k + ORC.

Mazda MX5 is over priced here. Mazda adds a big fat margin as there is no competitor and it has a good following.

Oh wow. Seems to be a competitor to the Suzuki Swift Sport as they are both sporty with 1.6L engines.

Well hopefully the base manual 86 ends up costing less than $40, 000 here then. ;)

personally i'd take the Swift Sport over Veloster any day of the week.....

Me too. ;)

the new Swift Sport is loaded with features now. including HID, keyless start, 17" wheels, bluetooth etc. compared with the old model, not bad for $24k + ORC.

Time will tell but im highly confident you will get a high spec for 40k, hopefully with change for some fat rollers.

Nardi is right the MX5 was hugely over priced in Oz compared to other offerings world wide. Comparing it to the 86 price wise would not be very accurate.

Times have/are changing and if Toy Aus wants back into the small rwd market they will hopefully come to the party as other countries have and offer the 86 in a sensible price bracket.

Why are you all so confident of pricing? There is no point syaing your gut feels something about pricing.... Toyota don't care about your innards.
We will probably get pricing next month.
MX5 is also a convertible. This makes it more expensive as well.

what annoys me is that Toyota is targeting this car to males making over $100k a year? wtf is up with that

I hope they come to realisation that what they "expect" is wrong. If I were to earn that much right now (regardless of age and career) i'll be looking into the GT-R or something. i mean mainly the people that are interested in this car are for the "young" enthusiast (early 20s to mid 30s, who earn around 50 something to 60 or 80k) not mid aged enthusiast. I don't think the CEO of Toyota Australia is even listening to the their president of Toyota (Akio Toyada).His probably like "meh...its a sports car, lets make it pricey like a sports car."

Guys "Household Income" not singular income.

Of course its NOT beyond the means of that young guy making $50K P.A. and living at home with his parents to buy the 86.

So whatever your circumstances are.. if you can afford it, buy it and don't worry about who its "target market" is.

If you can't afford it work harder lol

:respekt:
+1 NICE!

Davey - If you were on a $150,000k you would buy a car that is worth more than your yearly income? Can't say I agree, but each to their own i guess.
I am with JDM. Target market or no target market, if you want it and it is in your budget, go for it :) If it isn't in your budget but you want it, wait for a used one :)

most people buy cars that are worth more than the yearly income. finance is king.

if I was earning 150k a year I wouldn't be looking at a 86, id be looking at a GTR or c63.

but each to there own I guess.

probably not as much as yearly income but if i earn $150k per year, i'd look for cars at least half the salary.

Toyota only care about their profit/lose margin. More profit and less wastage.

Confident on pricing well i guess that depends on who you know. I was sure this 86 would be 35k-50k but now im confident it wont be.

Just because Toyota have not officially released any pricing info to press or dealers doesn't mean legitimate information cant be had, ask the right person the right questions and you get the right answers.

You are right about May thou, dealers launch meeting (or what ever its called) in May/June and id say from that all sorts of info will be official/true.


Just looked at your link Paros (http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...0521-w11k.html) and a bloody Hyundai add started playing :lol:smooth Drive, very smooth.
:happy0180:

Saying that it will be 35-50k is pretty broad... It will definitely be in that bracket... I was more referring to the people being confident AND narrow. If you have real information absed on fact it isn't "a gut feeling".
Dimik - my point was nothing to do with the actual car.... that's a moot point... What I was saying is that I can't see the sense in buying a car that's over your yearly income. Yes, I know people do it, but it can be a good way to land in alot of financial trouble. Maybe I like saving money and having back up cash too much. but if I am buying a car over my yearly income, there isn't alot left over.
Nardi - I am with you dude. Half your yearly salaray, no worries. Even a bit more than half, no worries. I jsut couldn't spend more than what i earn in a year on something that depreciates alot. And the more expensive the car, the quicker it loses value too.

If you wanna talk about what car you'd buy on $150k salaray, I'd probably get a second hand, late model NSX :) Or a new IS350 fsport maybe?
C63 isn't a bad car though. It sounds sensational, and moves along fairly well too!

Definitely a nsx :) and prices will be revealed soon I reckon. I heard rumors, but they are still just rumors

I'm 20 (turning 21 in May) and think the Rukus is a lol. :lol:

This is a bit off-topic but: I don't understand why so many people like the style of utes? I mean people who buy a ute SSV as their "sports car" or because they just like their looks, without ever (or only rarely) actually using the back tray.

It is fully understandable to buy a ute for practical reasons, but personally I'd much rather see a Camaro (or a new Monaro) sold in Australia than a Holden Ute.

Cos its ASSUUUIIEEE MAAAAAAAAAAAAATE!!!

Holden utes aren't even practical. They have a very low payload rating. Fords are ok though thanks to the solid axle

A Mazda3 SP25 luxury is just over $35k. That's for a front wheel drive hatch. the top model, yes, but stil. It's no sports car.
Corolla ZR Levin is somewhere around $33-34k....
The 86 won't be the same price as these cars.

Have you driven a 25 or mps around the track? They go pretty damn good! Handle pretty good, huge boot (ugly but that's personal opinion :))
Fwd vs RWD, only difference is in drifting. Fwd can be a sports car, the RWD vs fwd stigma is fading, as is torque steering etc ;)

Haha I get to drive sp25's and MPS's hard regularly.
Dude I didn't say they don't handle well or go hard.
They don't handle as well as this car will, but my biggest point is not about that. FWD cars are CHEAPER to manufacture than RWD cars.
SO if two cars that are cheaper to manufacture are both mid 30's, the likliehood of a car that is more expensive to manufacture being the same price is unlikely ;)

And no, I don't agree that FWD's can be sports cars. Not real sports cars. They can be sporty and handle well. but not true sports cars.

All this for 2k extra?

Premium 3 Spoke Steering Wheel with Paddle Shift (AT Only)
Aluminium Pedals
Aluminium Scuff Plate
Tachometer with Digital Speed (km/h)
Frameless Inside Rear View Mirror
Leather/ Alacantra Accented Seat Trim
Premium Instrument Panel Finish

Exterior:
17" Alloy Wheels
High Intensity Discharge (HID) Headlamps
Daytime Running Lamps

Utility & Comfort:
Smart Entry/ Start
Dual Zone Auto Climate Control A/C
Driver & Passenger Seat Heater

Audio:
6.1" Sat Nav Audio

Ok 1st of all why can't a fwd be a TRUE sports car?
Second, everything in this country is overpriced car wise. It doesn't cost even 20k to manufacture the 3 or the 86 for that matter, so why wouldnt they be able to be similar price?
MX5 isn't worth what they are selling it for and neither was the 8. I wouldn't have bought my rx8 new.. Fuck that.. For that money there is a smougus board of cars that are better. That's why 8 did so bad here. That's why 370 is doing so bad here.
If this car isn't under 35 it's going to fail in the long run (ie 2-3 years) cus after the enthusiasts buy it, and the hype dies down, what's left? If its over 40 I give it 12-18 months before sales dwindle..
And anything is only worth what you are willing to pay (see diamonds/Gold)

Not too bad!! ^^^

Hopefully there isn't much difference between the two here either.

I just don't understand why it would be priced at under 35k. Celica's and Prelude's were selling for up to 50k for their high spec models 15 years ago. Do you have an example of any car that sells for 25-27k in the US and sells for mid 30's in Australia? I think all this price speculation is wishful thinking on the part of many members of this forum. I think that even at 40k on the road for a base spec, this makes it a cheap brand new car. Regardless of what second hand cars you think you can get for this price, there's not many brand new RWD sporty cars at this price point that are significantly better value.

Toyota will price the car based on maximising profits, hence its stated target market which we've all read about. It will not miss out on 5-10k profit per car to make it more accessible to enthusiasts unfortunately.

As for spending more than your annual income on a car, you will find that most people on high salaries will only spend a fraction of their income on their car. Case in point are several colleagues at my work. One is on around 600k a year, drives a Prius, one makes around 300k, drives an Aurion, another on around 300k and drives a little jap hatchback. The only person who drives something of value in the boss who's car is worth around 150k. He is making over 1mil. This is their individual incomes, not combined family. Just some fruit for thought

I didnt say that they should miss out on profit, but making 5k less per car, but selling 1000 more cars will yield you a greater over all profit. Key to success is to think long term rather than short term ;) Enthusiasts will buy it regardless of the price. People who don't know much or don't care about cars and see them as point a to point b devices will buy something chrap, practical, cheaper on insurance.

Can you recall the exchange rates from 15 years ago?

And all cars here cost at LEAST 20% more. 10-15% more yeah, we are a smaller market, but even that isn't a excuse, it doesn't cost THAT much more for shipping in smaller quantities here.. (or shipping in general, since USA makes a lot and ships out)

Best solution for Australia in general would be to have MORE factories here, giving more to the economy as well..