dont cut any holes until you are certain that center channel / surround is the best option for you. Sadly CDs and MP3s are still recorded in 2ch stereo, using post processing to turn that into a surround sound ie logic 7 on the ms-8 I found that it sent too much info to the center channel and took away stage width when listening to some recordings. Delete your rears, not worth the effort IMO. Run an active 2 way setup with the hybrids and get a 4ch amp to drive them.

Just to be clear, I am just talking about running wires from the existing holes where the stock 3.5 mids reside in the dash to the new dedicated 5 channel amp in case I want to add Hybrid Audio 3.5 mids down the road to the dash to go to a 3 way setup vs 2 way.

Running extra wires? Good idea. You may want to add midrange later.

L3V2 is a good midrange.

If you're comfortable with REW, use the RTA function, a good mic/preamp, and you can use an EQ like the 3Sixty.3, PS8 etc and set it up correctly.

EDIT: If you need more channels, [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosgate-T400-4-Multi-Channel-Amplifier/dp/B0012Q9976/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375469927&sr=8-1&keywords=t400-4"]Amazon.com: Rockford Fosgate Power T400-4 400-Watt Multi-Channel Amplifier: Car Electronics[/ame]
Shocking how cheap the power series has become. Nice reliable class AB amps.

Thanks, all of that makes sense.

I figured since the installer will have everything pulled apart, he should not charge me too much to run a few extra wires for the midrange...

Smart thinking. Especially since he'll have to run wires for your tweeters.

FYI. If you didn't know, the doors have dedicated speaker wire run to the trunk already. (Factory amp). You can intercept that and not have to re-wire that. Will save you ton of time.

Hybrid audio speakers should be here today. Install is tomorrow :)

I did get my subwoofer box built yesterday. I was originally going to go with a wedge sub that would fit in the back, but after thinking it through, I decided to go with more of a thin flat box design. This would allow me to maximize placement in terms of firing to the back, top, or bottom. So I can move the woofer around to determine where it sounds the best. The Pioneer SSW251 driver is a 10" shallow driver and specs show that the ideal size box is about .46 cu sq ft, and it can be as small as about .35 cu sq ft. My target was the .46 cu sq ft range, and accounting for the driver volume (these shallow drivers are really cool in that you can really fit them in a smaller box) and material thickness, I ended up with a 19" wide box that is 13" tall, and 6" deep. So pretty small and it will not take up much space.

I like this subwoofer enclosure volume calculator:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...me-calculator/

I did go with baltic birch wood due to the fact that it is lighter than MDF and has excellent properties for good sound and is not as soft as MDF or nearly as messy to work with. The trick is getting good 13 ply birch that is void free, but I was lucky in that Mendards carries some and I had lots left over from a previous project. All I needed was a single 2x2 sheet that was $9.

Some tips I will share. I highly recommend one of these for cutting the woofer holes:
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/c...s/101_1432.jpg

It is a Jasper Jig 200, and makes cutting holes effortless and much more professional looking versus using a jig. I already owned one from my home theater subwoofer builds.

Another tip. When gluing the box together I recommend PL Premium adhesive. Why? Because as it dries, it expands and you are much less likely to have any air leaks, I also run a bead on all the inside seams as well to ensure no air leaks. Definitely buy some cheap disposable rubber or vinyl gloves though because this stuff sucks if it gets on your hands and it is messier than wood glue. You can usually find it for under $5 or so:

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...fcde25_300.jpg

To finish the box, I am going to sand it and then apply Duratex (this is designed specifically for speaker cabinets) with a smooth roller. I still have half a can and I prefer it to carpet:

http://store.acrytech.com/images/products/173.jpg

I will get some pictures tonight with the woofer installed in the box. I am not going to have time to sand and paint the box before tomorrow AM (Duratex has a pretty long cure time), but I wanted to have the box ready for tomorrow for the installer.

Cost so far for the sub.. $65 for the driver. $9 for wood (had scraps already). $5 for PL Premium. $5 for industrial strength Velcro straps. $4 for 4" smooth texture rollers.

$88 dollars so far. I already had a terminal cap and speaker wire. See how it sounds and I like it, but I think this will do the trick. Again, I am not looking for overpowering bass in my car, just something to smooth frequency response.

Pictures to come... Looking forward to the install tomorrow..

Congrats! I look forward to seeing your install. I finally got my PHD tweeters in the mail and I must say they look damn sexy!

BTW, where did you get that jig? I gotta get one.

Nevermind, found it at parts-express.

Yep, Parts Express rocks. Love that place :) Congrats on getting your new tweeters..

this thread is excellent, thanks guys.

Speaker porn :)

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps4b9fa6d2.jpg

Hybrid Audio Imagine l61-2V2 6.5 vs JL Audio C5-650

The Hybrid Audio speakers are considerably heavier. I went ahead and converted the Hybrid Audio speakers from coax to component. Easy peasy. There is a great Youtube video out there on how to do this by the manufacturer. Phase plugs are now installed.

Here is a pic of the unfinished sub:

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...pse3b063e9.jpg

Should have the sub finished by the end of the week.

System was installed today. Talked to the installer and we decided to keep the 3.5" stock midrange speakers and power those as well as the tweeters and the 6.5 door speakers off the amp. I kept the rear speakers for now and they are hooked up to the head unit.

Trying to be impartial, my initial impressions are as follows:
- Bass! Finally I have some real punch. The Imagine 6.5's are everything I hoped for. Very great sound coming from them, and without the sub in the mix, they are a big upgrade being powered off the new amp vs the old stock 6.5's and old amp. Pretty happy with the response out of these speakers.

- The subwoofer really fills out the lower end and frees up the speakers. Again, for the price I paid, the subwoofer was everything I hoped it would be. Good accurate bass. This is not a bass monster, nor will it play ultra low frequency bass, but that was not my goal.

- I was initially disappointed with the Hybrid Audio Imagine tweeter. Highs were overpowering, bright, and thin sounding. I tried a number of different songs from Foo Fighters, to Imagine Dragons, to ColdPlay, to Green Day. Songs that I am very familiar with. No question everything sounded better, but the tweeters were still the weak link and, frankly, disappointing.

- I went into the EQ, and realized one of the factory defaults had been selected which boosted the upper frequencies. A sense of relief :) I spent about 15 minutes manually listening and tweaking and it sounds considerably better. It still needs more work, but it is a huge improvement over the stock system.

I am pretty convinced I will be upgrading the stock midrange speakers to HAT's midrange speakers. Will look for a deal. I also need a DSP. The stock head unit just does not have enough EQ options to get the sound I know the system is capable of putting out. I talked to the installer and he recommended either the Audisson Bit10 (which is what he has in his car) or the Rockford Fosgate 363. The more we talked the more he thought, on my budget, the Rockford Fosgate would be the better fit for me, and he has had great success with the system and has been happy with it.

So, I will save up and have one installed down the road when the time is right. For now, I will be enjoying the system. Very happy with everything and I accomplished my initial goals.

Total cost to date (including tax and installation) is around $960.

I wish there was a local vendor here in the STL that sold HAT. I've always wanted to hear them and compare them to the Audison Voce and the Hertz MK163's. I know they have an excellent reputation.

FYI. I would recommend NOT keeping the stock HU if you add EQ / DSP into the car. The stock Fujistu HU works ok the way you're using it, but I would not recommend running it through another DSP due to some of the processing the HU adds.

If you're going to spring for a 3Sixty.3 or Audison Bit1/10, You're going to want a new HU. I've run the stock Fujitsu HU into processors, and the results were less than adequate.

EDIT: To be explicitly clear, this is BRZ only with the Fujitsu HU. I have not used any of the Pioneer HU's from the Toyota/Scion side.

Man, you like spending my money, don't you :)

Jokes aside, I have never loved this headunit, but have not found one in the $500 or so range that I really love either. Mainly I am looking for a head unit with much larger GUI buttons, and hopefully more physical buttons to aide when driving and wanting to change tracks/stations, etc.

Any recommendations?

If you have a smart phone, the Pioneer AVH-X3500BHS is a great double din. You can integrate apps from your phone to the touch screen and use your phones GPS NAV(cheeper to update than a headunit). MSRP is around $400

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-AVHX8500BHS-Double-DIN-Multimedia-Bluetooth/dp/B00B8DRG9Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376062941&sr=8-1&keywords=x8500bhs"]Amazon.com : Pioneer AVHX8500BHS Double-DIN Multimedia DVD Receiver With Bluetooth And HD Radio : Car Video Dvd Players : Electronics[/ame]

You can get the X8500BHS for around that too if you like Amazon. X8500BHS is what I have, and is the highest end unit without built in NAV that Pioneer makes. If you want Nav built in you need the AVIC-Z150, but expect to spend 800 or so on Amazon.

The X8500 works ok with my android phone. Rooted and with AppLiberator, you have full control of the android device from the HU. Nav works great with that setup. It's not for everyone, as it's a little more finicky than some people like, but if you're comfortable with android and don't mind figuring things out, it's a good way to go.

Plus, if you get sick of the appradio functions, the Nav unit is $300 or so too add later.

FYI. My radio rattled in dash. The fix was to add some closed cell foam behind the mechanical moving screen to prevent it from shaking relative to the double DIN radio. You may see this with any Pioneer radio. (Not guaranteed, but I saw it and fixed it). (The plate that holds the screen on and moves with it was rattling with the base, this plate moves with the removable screen.)

EDIT: FYI. The filtering functions in the X8500BHS suck. The sub control is ok for volume only, but it only has a 3rd order filter, with no options for 2nd or 4th order for tuning flexibility. I wouldn't use this radio without outboard EQ. I'm using my old 3Sixty.2 right now.The high pass filter is also only on-off for the high channels (all four, not selectable per channel) and it's 2nd order.

Currently, I do not filter my high channels at all, and blend the sub in at 50Hz. Not sure if the Imagine woofers will support that, but the Legatia L6 woofers I have measure flat down to 32Hz in car response.

Ironically enough, this is the model I have been looking at. There have been a lot of FT86 owners that mention this model and have had good luck with it. It definitely seems like a big upgrade over the stock unit. NAV is not that important to me, and it appears that I would have multiple NAV options with this deck through my iPhone.

Gonna put this on the wish list :) I will most likely update the midrange speakers to the Hybrid line first.

I spent considerable more time playing around with the new speakers and setup last night and came to the realization that music from my iPod mini via USB sounds much better with the Hybrid Audio speakers than streamed over my iPhone via Bluetooth. These speakers capture the imperfections much more than the stock ones did.

Ironically enough I own the 8500. You had mentioned wanting more buttons on the head unit and control over the volume without having to divert your attention. That's why I had mentioned the 3500. There is one gotcha I have seen with mounting kits. The 8500 sticks out a bit too far in my opinion. The bottom lip will clear the molding piece around the headunit. The installer for my system had fabricated a custom bracket and it sits back father in the location than normal. I have not noticed any rattle coming from my head unit. Maybe because of the custom brackets. Normal mount kits use plastic pieces and that may be carrying over the vibration to the plate for ean611. Good to know about the potential for rattle from there though. Thanks ean611.

No Prob on the rattle. There is no mounting bracket that would effect what I saw on the 8500. This was simply the movable face plate rattling against the unit. If you bolted the thing down to two long steel poles on the left and right, and then shook it, it'd rattle. It wasn't FR-S/BRZ specific.

It could also have been a marginal unit. Either way, I hate rattles.

So I played around with my audio settings and speakers today and discovered everything sounded better without the stock midrange speakers added to the mix... It actually sounds noticeable better without them. Time to look for some deals on Hybrid Audio mid ranges.

Are the Hybrid Audios drop in replacements size wise?

Yes. I am not sure if the woofers in the doors needed spacers, but otherwise yes. I am rally liking how the Imagines sound.

I like your audio setup. One of the option for best sound set up:
1) alpine HU & amp.
2) A focal speaker system or at least kappa perfect w/ a 10" sub.

Btw, where did you get the coupon for alpine amp v70 on sale at BB ? That is a good price.

Contact Hybrid Audio. Sometimes they have b-stock or damage box units.

Also, with my L3v2 in dash, I filter them with a 4th order (24dB/octave) high pass filter at 500Hz. You may want to do something similar (use your ears, see what you like, etc), but I just give you the heads up, as there is no baffling or sealing below the midranges. I can pump out 160-18,000Hz out of those midranges, a far wider bandwidth than the original drivers. If you hear your upper mid bass / lower midrange (200-400 Hz range) get a little muddy, and sound like it's reverberating in your dash, you will want to filter that, and let your door woofers cover that range.

My first plan was to cross over the L3v2 and my L6 woofers at 250Hz, and I also tried 200Hz, as the frequency response of the L3v2 is excellent. However, unless I want to deconstruct the dashboard area there and "fix" it, it's easier to just not use that frequency range.

What you may hear: Lower vocal register (mostly men) becomes a little muddy. Lower end of symphonic music will sound muddy. Good example: Nightwish's album Imaginaerum. The sound is a mix of guitars and classical symphonic sounds. To play this nicely, you want to have a separation and clarity so all the contrasting instruments are distinct. I found that with my crossover point set too low, the music got muddy. Also, you want the sound from the midrange and tweeter coming off the windshield (not ideal, but with stock locations, this is what you get). With these mids, (and on music like I've been talking about), the sound stage is pulled down a bit and it sounds like your dash board is a bit of a speaker. The issue is that your dashboard is a rather poor speaker. (I use this example, because you will not always see the same effect with every piece of music)

As always, trust your ears. Make sure you like how it sounds.

Best Buy had the Alpine v70 on sale for $228 and I had a coupon for 10% off. Not sure if they were supposed to accept the coupon too, but I waited like 30 minutes for someone to help me (this always seems to happen at Best Buy and a reason why I avoid the place) and they took it.

I am pretty happy with the Hybrid Audio Imagine series speakers I ended up with. I am sure the Focal's are quite nice, but the decision has been made :) The 6.5' woofer on the Imagine series is very good, and the tweeters play loud and clear and are very efficient. Not much more I could ask for considering the speakers were $299 to my door.

Thanks for the advice. I did try to keep the stock midrange speakers in the mix and tried lots of adjustments, but everything sounded worse to me with those speakers in the mix. I have no doubt that the Hybrid's will be a nice step up. The only thing that sucks is the midrange speakers are pricey compared to the Imagine series, so as you mentioned, I will be looking B stock or used. I am so happy right now vs what I had before (stock) that I don't mind keeping it this way for awhile. The speakers seem to sound better everday :)

Thanks again for all your help.

finally found this thread again. ive been looking for it.

Hopefully it has been helpful. I have been pretty happy with the new system and glad I upgraded. The bass is worlds better in the car for both the 6.5 door speakers as well as the dedicated sub.

did you ever get the Hybrid audio mid ranges?

heres my 80% complete custom sub box. who needs rear seats anyway?


if you live in or near ny and want a custom box like mine message me