Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB - Aftermarket parts cannot VOID your warranty

- Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=72)

- - Aftermarket parts cannot VOID your warranty (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42595)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedabi (Post 1164356)

I am a trial attorney. Listen to what Dezoris and SigmaHyperion said. I "thanked" all the posts I agree with. People need to think through how the MM Act can be brought into play. Printing up a copy of it and bringing to the dealer won't have magical effects.

I just had warranty work done for an faulty abd sensor that out my BRZ into limp mode. I have no mods. But say the dealership, for whatever reason denied my warranty repair for an intake. I cite the MM Act. They laugh. I write to Subaru. No response.

So at this point there are no magical forces that will make Subaru or the dealership meet their burden of proof. Starting a lawsuit is the only option. No experienced trial lawyer is going to take on the case without a retainer. There is ALWAYS risk taking any matter to trial where a total stranger (judge) or strangers (jury) who may have little to no experience with cars/ the MMA/modding will make the decision. You may or may not recoup attorney costs. Even if you are awarded attorney costs, it will likely be "reasonable costs" and not the amount you actually paid your lawyer.

This isn't even getting to the expert witness you'll likely need to tell the court that the modification wasn't related to the warranty claim. "But they'll have the burden of proof!" Once the dealer serves up an affidavit from one of its techs blankly saying that the mid is related, BAM, a judge can say burden is met. You'll have to rebut that with an expert witness.

Hopefully your post will put an end to the concept that the MM Act is an act of God on paper.

You should pop into the other threads where people suggest hiring a lawyer for a $200 job gone wrong. "they put pickles on my burger!"..."get a lawyer dude!".

Quote:

Originally Posted by fistpoint (Post 1164396)

And who's saying MM is an act of God? people should know about the protections that they do have, and whether you like it or not, it is a type of consumer protection in the form of a presumption.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedabi (Post 1164356)

Starting a lawsuit is the only option. No experienced trial lawyer is going to take on the case without a retainer. There is ALWAYS risk taking any matter to trial where a total stranger (judge) or strangers (jury) who may have little to no experience with cars/ the MMA/modding will make the decision. You may or may not recoup attorney costs. Even if you are awarded attorney costs, it will likely be "reasonable costs" and not the amount you actually paid your lawyer.

Filing a suit is not the ONLY option. Every situation and every jurisdiction is different. Sometimes all it takes for action on the part of the manufacturer is a letter from an attorney, ask me how I know...lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonewolf (Post 1164416)

I know you at least used to practice law. Did you write the letter yourself? AND THREATEN LITIGATION? I would have in your situation.

But at any rate that means that the dealership voluntarily agreed to accept the warranty work. If it decided not to, and this has been my point, only a court can force the dealership to abide by the law. There may be jurisdictions that authorize a consumer protection authority to have some teeth, but these decisions can typically be challenged in court.

I should add that many dealerships now have clauses in their sales contract where you agree to waive your right to go to court and proceed to arbitration only - usually arbitrators of a dealership's choice. There are less formal environments and you might stand a better chance without an attorney.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceFyre13th (Post 1095844)

Just to be clear, I am not a lawyer and no I wont stay at a Holiday Inn.

But, if you ever wondered if your CAI, Exhaust, LED's, UniChip, etc will void your warranty the simple answer is no.......UNLESS the manufacture can prove the aftermarket part caused the failure.

See http://www.thoroughbreddiesel.com/po...nuson-moss.htm for more information

You showed me you have no idea what your talking about when you say Void in your title.. No warranty is voided.. Just denied.. And yes I work in the automotive industry

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedabi (Post 1164508)

Only a court can force the dealership to abide by the law. There may be jurisdictions that authorize a consumer protection authority to have some teeth, but these decisions can typically be challenged in court.

I should add that many dealerships now have clauses in their sales contract where you agree to waive your right to go to court and proceed to arbitration only - usually arbitrators of a dealership's choice. There are less formal environments and you might stand a better chance without an attorney.

Bang on in the first paragraph (particularly the bolded region)...hopefully, it doesn't come down to forcing them to comply.

Good points in the second paragraph as well. The arbitration clauses have permeated everything now it seems...from all forms of medical practices to body shops, but there are ways around those clauses as well...:bellyroll:

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedabi (Post 1164356)

Contact the Attorney General's office and they'll sometimes take the case for free. Attorney General handles consumer fraud cases (in Ohio and many states). If the plaintiff wins, they're entitled by law to 3x their damages. Check out the Ohio Attorney General's Office website if you don't believe me. My wife and I filed a complaint with them about a dealership when it turned out they charged us for the 100k 7yr warranty, but never registered it with Subaru THEN tried to deny a warranty claim. We should have just sued their asses, but they ended up covering the repair when we threatened to escalate our complaint to a civil suit.

If you end up having to go to court, make friends with a good independent shop that specializes in Subarus, pay them to fix the car, then bring them in as expert witnesses (or someone they'd recommend) along with all of the documented photo and video footage of the damage, stock parts at fault, etc.

*cough* No mention of WARNING WARRANTY COVERAGE VOID IF YOU RACE IN OUR SUBARU-SPONSORED TRACK EVENT *cough*

http://indyscca.org/SoloFiles/2013SubaruChallenge.pdf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gixxersixxerman (Post 1164542)

You showed me you have no idea what your talking about when you say Void in your title.. No warranty is voided.. Just denied.. And yes I work in the automotive industry

Void

adjective
adjective: void

1.
not valid or legally binding.
"the contract was void"
synonyms:invalid, null, ineffective, nonviable, useless, worthless, nugatory "the election was void"

antonyms:valid
- (of speech or action) ineffectual; useless.
  "all the stratagems you've worked out are rendered void"
2.
completely empty.
"void spaces surround the tanks"
synonyms:empty, vacant, blank, bare, clear, free, unfilled, unoccupied, uninhabited More"vast void spaces"

antonyms:full
- free from; lacking.
  "what were once the masterpieces of literature are now void of meaning"
  synonyms:devoid of, empty of, vacant of, bereft of, free from; lacking, wanting, without, with nary a
  "a country void of man or beast"
  
  antonyms:occupied
- formal
  (of an office or position) vacant.
3.
(in bridge and whist) having been dealt no cards in a particular suit.noun

noun: void; plural noun: voids

1.
a completely empty space.
"the black void of space"
synonyms:vacuum, emptiness, nothingness, nullity, blankness, vacuity; empty space, blank space, space, gap, cavity, chasm, abyss, gulf, pit, black hole
"the void of space"
- an emptiness caused by the loss of something.
  "the void left by the death of his wife"
- an unfilled space in a wall, building, or structure.
2.
(in bridge and whist) a suit in which a player is dealt no cards.verb

verb: void; 3rd person present: voids; past tense: voided; past participle: voided; gerund or present participle: voiding

1.
declare that (something) is not valid or legally binding.
"the Supreme Court voided the statute"
synonyms:invalidate, annul, nullify; negate, quash, cancel, countermand, repeal, revoke, rescind, retract, withdraw, reverse, undo, abolish;
vacate;
formalabrogate
"the contract was voided"

antonyms:validate
2.
discharge or drain away (water, gases, etc.).
- Medicine
  excrete (waste matter).
- empty or evacuate (a container or space).

Denied

verb
past tense: denied; past participle: denied

1.
state that one refuses to admit the truth or existence of.
"they deny any responsibility for the tragedy"
synonyms:contradict, controvert, repudiate, challenge, counter, contest, oppose, rebut; informalpoke holes in;
formalgainsay
"the report was denied by witnesses"

antonyms:confirm
- refuse to admit the truth of (a concept or proposition that is supported by the majority of scientific or historical evidence).
  "an anti-environmentalist campaign group that denies climate change"
2.
refuse to give or grant (something requested or desired) to (someone).
"the inquiry was denied access to intelligence sources"
synonyms:refuse, turn down, reject, rebuff, repulse, decline, veto, dismiss; informalgive the thumbs down to, give the red light to, nix
"he denied the request"

antonyms:accept
- refrain from satisfying oneself.
  "he had denied himself sexually for years"
- archaic
  refuse access to (someone).
  "the servants are ordered to deny him"

Just thought you might like to learn what the words mean..................:thumbsup:

If you had actually bothered to read the links I provided the word Void is used a lot too...................

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceFyre13th (Post 1170731)

1.
not valid or legally binding.
"the contract was void"

Just thought you might like to learn what the words mean..................:thumbsup:

If you had actually bothered to read the links I provided the word Void is used a lot too...................

"Legally, a vehicle manufacturer cannot void the warranty on a vehicle due to an aftermarket part unless they can prove that the aftermarket part caused or contributed to the failure in the vehicle..."

This is the only place the word void is used in the MM Act, and it's a layman's summary. The much more specific language below it is what matters. What the summary means to say is, 'vehicle' = failed original manufacturer part. Even the recent 2011 FTC ruling makes this very clear.

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles...ne-maintenance

A warranty is a legally-binding contract. They don't get to just throw it out for the entire car when you change a part or do a trackday. Only the specific parts you replaced for aftermarket are no longer covered under warranty. Unless there is a VERY specific clause in the warranty (like the infamous red key for the Boss Mustang), the warranty is valid until you exceed the mileage or years. If you have a shop install a turbo and they blow up your engine on the dyno, only your engine's coverage would be denied. Buy a new Subaru factory engine and have it installed by the dealership and voila, you're back to your factory warranty.

People NOT knowing the law and their rights with regard to warranty coverage is due to dealerships and manufacturers actively skirting or even flat-out ignoring the law to save money. It's not their job to educate you. Warranty claims don't make them any money, so it's not in their best interest to put every ignorant jackass who walks through the front door through a class on warranty coverage.

If you have a major warranty issue come up and it is denied, talk to a lawyer and educate yourself.

I got grief (and threats to void my warranty) for using an aftermarket oil filter. :bs: I think dealers know they "can" get away with shit just to save money. Most people never push back.