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The people on this forum will generally go all crazy on you, label you a troll, preach how you must not appreciate a true sports car, imply that you have never been on a track, tell you that you are a drag racer, suggest that you would be happier with a Mustang or a Camaro (because if you want more power, you obviously want a large, heavy muscle car!) and immediately start stroking each other's egos to justify there planned purchase if you make note of any of the following:
oh... and use search... a lot... |
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Yeah... me too....
I am really looking forward to driving one. |
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Well there is no other car out at a similar price point that has garnered the same universal raves for its handling characteristics, its liveliness, its connection to the road. Not the Mustang, the Mini, the Gen coupe, or the GTI. On that level the value will be there.
High power doesn't interest me all that much, I'd like to have fun driving on the street and still keep my license. I've driven a hi-po muscle car and for me it didn't hold a candle to the comparatively lo-po vintage Porsche my father had - and the latter certainly could not manage the 6 sec 0-60 predicted for the FR-S. The Toyobaru will be more than fast enough for me. |
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OMFG how dare you say things that are true. It'll be nice to see comparison videos, I think someone should make a youtube series called "FRS VS..." and just take the FRS (when it finally comes out) and run it compared to similarly priced new and used cars. That would be so much fun!! |
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This car needs to have enough power to at least compete with other sports cars around the same price. It will never have or need V8 muscle car power, but it needs enough hp and especially torque so that you can keep up with other similarly priced sports cars (even FWD ones) and the great handling this car possesses will not be enough to close that gap. |
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i have 140 lb-ft in my car and it pulls just as hard as my friends mustang and hes got 240 lb-ft , hes got 100 more lb-ft and more hp but is slower than me 0-60 and 0-120 60-120 doesnt matter
the weight difference between my car and his is 800lbs that does mean a lot, 151 should be more than enough to make the car fun, |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I38_s...ayer_embedded#! Quote:
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It is low for a car but good for a 4 banger... If you don't like the car, why are you here? |
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The Honda S2000 made 153 and the SUPERCHARGED Lotus Elise made 157. |
This talk of torque to weight ratio makes me sick, shut up already! :P
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I actually own a car with 140tq and I will be the first to say it's weak. The torque is rich in the torque band of my RSX base but it still feels weak when it's hauling 2790 lbs+.
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This car will be fine on track, regardless of the low torque number. The place where it will fall down is 4th gear and up acceleration and resultant top speed. It will be similar to my RX-8... superb on track, esp. tight tracks, or long tracks without much in the way of straights. But anywhere where higher HP cars can stretch their legs, they'll easily show their strength ... outright acceleration at speed ... and you'll be left in the dust. Power rules because drag increase as the cube of speed. 200HP just doesn't go that far countering drag forces. Take these two easy examples....
Say, for the FRS/BRZ if 3HP is needed at 30mph, then 24HP is required at 60mph, but 192HP is needed at 120mph. It's pretty much finished accelerating. vs. let's take a 350HP Mustang if 4HP is needed at 30mph, then 32HP is required at 60mph, but only 256HP is needed at 120mph. There's more HP left and it will contiune to accelerate just fine. Long story short, this car will rock on the twisties, you'll be crying on the long straights. |
the problem with cars that have weak low and mid range is a matter of torque curve more than peak torque numbers. the peak number doesn't really tell the story. from the dynos we've seen, the new 86 has a very flat torque curve, a very good indication. at least drive it for yourself before you knock it.
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That's the price of high revs, fixed cam profile. I'm happy about it, because the mpgs should be better :P |
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lol yeah i've seen the curve. the dip is not big. i doubt you'd even notice the dip when you're actually driving the car. 150 lb/ft at 3000rpm is pretty dang good if you ask me.
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EDIT: plus overcoming rolling resitance, forgot about that :P so its anywhere between 19-24 hp but not 32 hp and you dont need 192 hp at 120mph its about 120hp... these are the calculations for a 6 series with a .29 CG, remember the 86 has a lower .27 CG weighs less and is a smaller car, has skinnier tires and less rolling resistance.... Speed/ Power at the wheels/ Power at the engine 35 mph 8 hp 9 hp 60 mph 20 hp 23 hp 80 mph 38 hp 44 hp 100 mph 64 hp 75 hp 120 mph 102 hp 119 hp 140 mph 152 hp 178 hp 160 mph 220 hp 257 hp 180 mph 304 hp 356 hp 200 mph 409 hp 479 hp 220 mph 537 hp 628 hp 250 mph 776 hp 908 hp |
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ok whatever floats your boat, but don't be surprised if not everyone sees 150 lb/ft of torque as a shortcoming the same way you do. yes in an ideal world i would like more torque, hp, 500lbs lighter weight and a $50 msrp. but it ain't gonna happen, and i for one am gonna at least test drive the car before i complain about a weak low end/mid range.
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My spec.B gets up and goes, and this will be quicker (post-launch). I don't think I'm going to be worrying too much about the available power.
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its been explained in another thread... :/ |
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Compromises are made into every car but for some people it isn't a compromise. To each his own. Every car I wanted to own had a compromise or two but I can still appreciate all of them. 370Z- No back seats GC 3.8 Track -250 lbs to heavy at 3,472 lbs(I wish it was 3200 lbs) S2K- No back seats and high revving is where the real power lies FRS- ? TBD. Aventador:drool: - Too expensive..:D M3 - maintenance sucks and weight is 250 lbs to heavy I could go on but I love all those cars and more. |
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However you slice it, lower p/w ratio cars hit the drag wall faster than those with excess HP to use. And that typically means lower useable top end. |
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