I think most direct injection systems run like this.

Mazda's systems are a pity, HPFP failures all the time. We are very luck someone at Toyota/Subaru did there homework when they put the car together.

Mods - Please don't lock this thread. There's a lot of good info in here. If need be, deal with people on a one off basis.

I agree. So to us with E85 in our tanks is it in our best interest to switch back to pump gas until we get more info and answers? I have a 1/4 tank left. So its either that or fill back up with E85 and play Russian roulette...

I think we all need more data.

Considering Dons filter looks just fine I wouldn't be super concerned.

If we can get some ethanol users to crack the filters open that would be great.

Not sure what part numbers are or items that need to be purchase to replace the filter or if it can easily be done

John

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that this filter cannot be bought separately, it's part of the fuel pump assembly linked above, $285.

THat is if you get the whole assembly with pump etc, you can buy just the top and filter section as part number 42052D for 150. We looked it up on the other thread that got locked :)

beat me to it - 42052D can be purchased separate from the whole assembly, which is the price I listed.

Do you have a link to any site that sells it?

I see the image on some obscure Russian site where it indicates the part number on some russian site, but when I search that part # on Subaru parts websites it doesn't come back as valid (nor does it look like a full part number, most subaru part #'s i've seen are 9 or 10 digits). Perhaps this is the OEM's internal part number for that part? Then again, maybe I'm wrong and it is available separately, just not seeing it on anywhere.

That number is more than likely the short version of it. I hit up my friend to get me the whole part number, if applicable.

You may have to order it direct through Subaru.

Here is the number he just sent me. Same as on that site.

42052CA110

search this number here, actually cheaper. 106.65 list.

https://www.subarugenuineparts.com/oe_parts_cat.html

OP - I'd add this to the first post

Awesome, great find!

I posted this yesterday and got no attention (aside from @Hawaiian) so I'll post again.

it is very possible the fuel canister is similar to other Subaru's (e.g. WRX/STI). That would help a lot as there are ton's of these cars with a lot of miles on E85.....



Edit: Looks very similar, although not exactly the same:

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-lite...ll-gr-gvf.html

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/w...4/_MG_9294.jpg

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/5426/imagetze.jpg

Perhaps that could be used for part of a return style conversion, but since we are returnless stock... I don't think we can scavenge much from that assembly.

My point is more along the lines if WRX/STI uses the same filter, maybe it was more than E85 that caused the filter failure since there are TONS of these cars actively using E85 for a bunch of miles and different drive conditions with little to no issues.

werd :thumbsup: looks like a larger filter body on the wrx model, I'm sure someone has one laying around they could cut open and compaire the materials.

@Visconti has an STi on E85, no? I wonder if he's got one of these laying around?

Ya in my STi... Several years of e85 use

Great to see you have changed your position, we finally agree that there isn't enough data to claim it won't or will.

This is completely irrelevant if your STi doesn't have this same type of filter in its fuel pump assembly.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/08-Subaru-Im...22d95a&vxp=mtr

Who wants to snag it and hack it open?

Would it make since to remove this filter altogether and replace it with quality nylon inline filter post in-tank fuel pump, that way there would be no worries of cellulose (paper) breaking down and clogging the expensive DI pumps since whether it be E10 or E85 there is significant water absorption (hydroscopic fuel.)

Seems more and more like these cars weren't designed for fuel with ethanol levels we use in the sates. First the crickets no this. Finding an ethanol free pump gas station is completely impractical.

Crickets were due to clearance issues surrounding the plunger in the HPFP. The pocket can fill with air, which causes a high pitched noise as it passes through the pump. No damage, just noise.

There's a Subaru TSB regarding it (v2 showed up early May). If there are crickets, they can now be fixed (supposedly) with the new part.

wrx's may not have issues with it, but plenty of other cars do. some things take a while to show up (o-rings breaking down, lines being eaten up inside, etc).

the fact of the matter is even beyond this filter, no one here knows for sure either way whether it'll effect any part of the fuel system long term. it makes sense to think it will. it's not like toyobaru has any incentive to lie and say it isn't compatible when it is.

these cars just haven't been out long enough for anyone to know anything positively. everyone with e85 in their tank is a guinea pig at this point.

I agree with your statement except the bold part. It's not that they lie, but there is no reason to say they are when the fuel maps made for the car are not compatible with E85. This is an affordable sportscar, not a flex fuel fuel economy sedan, so why waste effort, design and money on making a flex fuel map and market it as a fuel economy, environment friendly car?

Just a counterpoint, who knows you might even be absolutely correct. :thumbup:

i agree.. it's iffy. it may make sense for them to not invest in whatever testing is required to claim compatibility, even if economies of scale dictate that all the same lines/o-rings/etc go into everything they make and are compatible throughout.

my main point is just that nobody knows. we're the blind leading the blind for atleast until enough experience is acquired to make an informed call.

I haven't really.

Still don't think there's a problem, but it's effects everyone so worth investigating further.. Even if I get to say " told ya so" when all said and done ;)

any updates?

Someone should just buy one of the filters new and rig it up to a car battery in a big bucket of E-85 and let it run continuously for a month or two, then tear it open and see the results. Obviously, there would be more involved than just that due to pressure requirements or w/e, but it would be an interesting experiment. Maybe change the ethanol every week or two to help with the water absorption problem. I'd give it a shot, but I don't have the cash or space to try it...

I've been having a minor E85 startup issue, started a few weeks ago.
It now takes 2 cranks to startup my car (in warm weather) if I leave my car sitting for a whole day/night (9+ hours or longer).. still starts up fine on 93 octane though, I just tried it with 93 this week. Always 2 cranks on E85 though.. no more, no less.

Not saying this is at all related to to fuel filter/pump issue.. just thought I'd post in case anyone else had similar startup issues with E85. Temps rarely drop below 65-70 degrees in the mornings/evenings now, since May.

On a possibly related note.. these 3 CEL codes popped up last week too:

P0402 (current fault) - Catalyst system effeciency below threshold (* appeared by itself 3 weeks prior to this, but went away the next day)
P0463 (current fault) - Fuel Level sensor circuit high input
P0171 (pending fault) - System too lean (bank 1)

It happened while I was cruising lightly towards E85 station, with less than a gallon of gas left in the tank.. had to stepped on the brake kinda hard when someone pulled out in front of me. That's when the CEL lit up. Could've been because the car lurched forward with so little gas left in the tank (0.7 gallons according to Torque app), I might've ran lean for just a SPLIT second. Not really sure, but the CEL went away the next day.

I have gotten the p0171 code before on e85. It was due to running out of gas. I was draining the tank before refilling on 93 and just drained it to far. I cleared the code. Has not been back since.

Thanks, that's good to know concerning that CEL code.

I was noticing the same thing on E85 these past few weeks. Temps here have been in the 60s during the morning, and 80's during the day. But my starts have been very weak, sometimes it would start on the first try, barely idle, then die. Other times it took 2 cranks. Switched back to pump gas tune and I think the car runs better. Sounds quieter, and starts amazingly. IDK, its kind of strange. Haven't pushed it much past 4k yet, but can't really tell that much of a power difference to be completely honest...

Probably just needs a little more cranking enrichment and warmup enrichment due to the summer blend that is now in all the pumps.

Put your foot on the floor and rev it out to redline, you will feel the difference, if not you need a better 85 tune.

I put it to the floor several times last night. I can tell a difference, but its faaaar from night and day. Most of my passengers can't tell a difference. It only made 12whp and 5wtq more than my pump gas tune...

was this on base map, or calibrated tune?

Yes, both tunes are on the base map and will requre to be adjusted, especially after installing the header. Just waiting for the 1.13 tunes to come out.

I just filled up on E85 again yesterday.. this morning it didn't take 2 cranks to fire up, but it felt like it was choking slightly on the first crank before firing up. Once it gets cranked however, my car drives much smoother & with a little more oomph on E85 than it does with 93 octane. Not a huge difference, but I can definitely feel it.

I don't really care much what degradation, if any, is happening... I'm not going back to 93 anymore, startup issues or not. My car likes the corn juice! :D
You probably just need to get your E85 tune tweaked a bit if it's not running better than your 93 tune.

Update: The 2-crank startup came back again, and it was 80+ degrees-F this morning too.. Started up fine on 1 crank for about a week after switching back from 93 octane though. Still not sure what the deal is, but guess that's a minor price to pay for 104 octane fuel haha

Could be your station has switched over to summer blend.

Yeah, i get the caughing 1st crank when its at or a little under 70 in the am... 85 or 90 sitting in the hot parking lot all day... it fires right up even better than 93.

Do you have any way to log your fuel trims? Shoot me a PM if you want me to look over some logs etc...

He is in GA, we have been on summer blend for a bit but i think it is still mixed in the station tanks... my local chevron tests at E80 straight from the pump.



Back on topic.... have we figured out a way to spot check things yet? Is there anyway to add an inline filter outside of the tank that would potentially catch any debris before it got to either fuel rail?