scion salesman are the worse.
they just hate the world

Really? You know all the Scion sales people?

This can't happen soon enough, I would have paid EXTRA money to just get what I wanted delivered with no headache.

The best salesmen are the ones that shut up, answer the questions you have, show you how to work whatever nonsense features are on the car and don't B.S. you on junk like options and undercoating.

It's unfortunate the draconian laws of the US prevent manufacturers from opening their own dealerships. I think just about everyone would prefer dealing with the manufacturer directly.

Wow. So much hate and animosity. In this day and age you don't have to deal with the Salesman. You can buy your cars over the internet. I regularly have customers that I will only meet once at the time of delivery.
It is your choice to work with the Salesman of your choice. If the first one that walks up to you doesn't know his stuff, then talk to someone else.

If I have a bad experience with someone in a service oriented trade, I will ask to deal with someone else. This is only as hard as you make it.

No one is forcing you to deal with a tool.

When I bought my STi in 03 the Salesman was such an idiot, I bypassed her and only dealt with the Sales Mgr and Finance Mgr.

I know that y'all got a lot of hate and stigma for us and this will fall on deaf ears. But here's a great video showing our(my) daily life.

From the other side of the fence: ***NWS for Language***
[ame]http://youtu.be/PAACjJ20-G0[/ame]




Ninja Edit: Page King-woot!

I knew more about the FR-S than my salesman, but still I don't recall him saying anything remotely wrong.

It not easy to be on the sales side we have to be picture perfect every time, but there is never an excuse or rudeness or misinformation. If I don't have an answer to a question I will get it for you simple as that. But I get how everyone feels about us I work for a non-scion dealer and when I went to another dealer the people weren't very nice to me either because of my age. All the managers receptionists and sales ignored me.

not all salesman are idiots.
but I mean telling me an engine is off to the side?????

I completely understand and agree that sales are hard, and I may be antisocial, but I would much prefer to purchase my vehicle from a vending machine with a guy that hands me a key to test drive it first. I mean no offense, but car salesman are in the same boat as travel agents these days. They're just becoming unnecessary as the younger generation grows up. There's literally no information a car salesman can provide me that Google cannot. A salesman, at his or her core, is in the business of information. You inform me so that I feel I am making an appropriate purchase, but there's simply no way a salesman can compete with the internet.

I recently helped my mother purchase a vehicle, and I think this is a big generational gap, but she had no idea what she wanted to buy. She was going to different dealership to be informed. I don't know of this occurring in anyone under 35--we already know all the specs on the vehicle, we just want the best price and a salesman is seen as an obstacle while they grimace and wince and do the "you're really bustin' my balls here Gen, but let me go talk to the big man. I can't really cut it that low without his sign off". I already know what the invoice is. I know what your holdback is. I know how much volume you do.

I have noticed a trend lately in that car sales people have become easier to work with and less high pressure, possibly because my grey hair indicates I've done this before. I actually enjoy the car buying experience now that I have had all the tricks pulled on me and can stop the game playing with a simple blank stare.

Yes and no.

Yes - Google is your friend when searching out any info.
No - My wealth of knowledge about my cars rivals google.

Knowing Invoice, Holdback, Volume means absolutely nothing. You don't know what that dealer needs to make every month to stay afloat. The happiest customers I've ever had have payed MSRP or close. The most unhappy customers that I have ever had nickled and dimed me to the point that we would almost take a loss on the deal to roll the car and they were still trying to get more discount.

The internet was supposed to eliminate car salesman. But we're still here and I doubt that we will go anywhere as long as the Mfrs think that selling a car requires customer service.

It would be like saying "I hate waiters. I wish I could go to a restaurant and just order my food from a kiosk." Not gonna happen.

I deal with all manners of people from 18-80. Their might be some people that know more than me but the majority of people cannot tell the difference between a model, trim, option or accessory.

The FT guys might know everything about the FT. But the other 99% of my customers buying Legacy, Outback, Impreza, WRX/STi and Tribeca still appreciate me, all of the information that I provide and the job that I do for them.

Y'all have to stop and realize - You do this once every 6-10 years. We do at least 6-10 cars every month-in, month-out.

Again, this goes back to - If you don't like your guy, get a different guy. If there's not one available go to a different store.

[QUOTE=Beyer Subaru;786320]

I know that y'all got a lot of hate and stigma for us and this will fall on deaf ears. But here's a great video showing our(my) daily life.

From the other side of the fence: ***NWS for Language***
[QUOTE]


I only made it halfway, and had to stop. Please, if all salespersons did what this video stated, this thread wouldn't exist.

If cars were around when Dante was writing, he'd probably place carsales with lawyers in the same level of Hades...

That being said, being well informed, using internet and phone will prevent most of the hucksters. Although there is still good comedy when you ask several Scion dealers about extended warrantee pricing. Really good laughs, they should be on a conference call together just to hear them stammer their way though collective BS reasoning and rationale.

Had a great time (due to dilligence and preparation) with Dale F at Gosch Toyota/Scion in Hemet, CA

Eric G

I get it and I'm not trying to imply at all that there aren't a lot people that appreciate you. I think the problem stems from the fact that you guys do indeed do this 6-10 times a month. It creates an information imbalance around the process in favor of the salesman and customers are inherently distrustful.

FWIW, sales put food on my table. I don't directly sell anything and sit in a nice cushy office at the top of a giant building, but the people under me do. They're constantly pushed by their superiors to sell every warranty and accessory on big ticket items you can shake a stick at in the name of 'taking care of the customer and providing a total package'. If they didn't, I would not have a pay check as these happen to be where all the margin is at. My honest opinion is that it's nearly impossible to make your boss happy without taking advantage of some customers, even if those customers thank you for it.

After my mother purchased her car, she went back and purchased a 100k mile / 8 year 'maintenance package', that included everything except tires for $4000. She felt great because she talked them down from $4600 and raved about their wonderful service. The woman put 34k miles on her last car in 9 years--the whole thing was absurd.

I don't know about that. You might remember my 'Is my dealer full of shit?" thread :)

I gave that dealer a bad review to SCION, and asked if they could fix the scratches, but they told me the only way was for me to go to that dealer again. Which doesn't really help, if I don't trust them as they lied to me every single interaction I had. I ended up going to second closest dealer for oil change, at which point they charged 90$ to do it early and I accidentally saw them drive the car like crazy on the way to their garage. Oh well. I don't really have a choice, and it seems that sometimes, or most of the time, we are indeed forced to deal with tools, and I'd rather not. Don't think I'm buying a new car ever again.

That is so true in many industries.

The ones that nickel and dime you to death usually will complain of you short changing them after they get the product. And referrals? Usually not or you get others also expecting cost price or less.

I like the pure pricing at Scion only because it takes the pressure off the negotiations (for me) and if the product is competitive in the market that should be enough. The factory or distributor can always adjust incentives, interest etc to keep things on target, but keep it the same for all dealers of the same brand.

People at Ford, GM etc used to make a lot more money when they close deals when I was in the business over 20 years ago. The only problem is: 1-do you believe in the product?, and 2-does the public believe in it?

Typically the harder the sell, the more the commission in the car business as I recall. Hondas back in the day might have sold themselves except sales reps needed to sell one a day wheras domestics you could make a living on 1/2 per week.

I found my Scion rep. very quiet, friendly, a good listener etc. Very non aggressive. I bet he doesnt make that much per car but he probably does a fair volume.

I wont even get into extreme time waster customers. I just spent all day dealing with one, finally agreeing oin a price, only to wait hours and hours for no fax to come back and then find they are trying to negotiate again.

I hated doing it, but I finally resorted to saying I have a family to support and after all winter in the building business if iI wanted to lose money on deals now my family could end up in the street. I know that is going too far, but in the end I will end up do more and more for this guy, and he will whittle me down literally to nothing.

Thank goodness I NEVER treated sales people that way. Salesmen are the easiest sale. Too bad not everyone has a big heart.

^to Beyer Subaru we just have to understand that there are in-fact sub par dealers out there. There is no point arguing for the sake of the dealer be cause ultimately the rise and fall of a dealer is dependent on the staff. I know that I as a sales person take pride in providing a proper experience but that very well isn't the case for some other reps. All we can do at a dealer level is take care of the people who do come into our door like I would a friend or a family member. In general perception = reality and because the perception is that dealers are evil that's just what we have to deal with. :(

I like watching the youtube videos, when the salesmen don't even know what they are saying. You guys know which ones.

I don't think I have every met a salesman, car, motorcycle, boat or otherwise that knew more about the vehicle than I did by the time I was ready purchase. Sure there have been dramatically varying skills or knowledge between salesman ranging from complete car-moron to moderately competent.

The salesman I bought my car tried to tell me that the reason the FR-S's engine is so awesome is because it has a "special" throttle body.

Truth is, I don't really care how much a car salesman knows about cars. I couldn't care less if he tells me "it runs on methanol injected fairy farts" and as long as they give me a good deal with a smile... I'm good.

Scott

It didn't eliminate them, but it sure did go a long way in making their job easier because you don't have to ask questions that the internet provided the answers for, namely the manufactures website and any associated car forum. The salesman only has to fill in the paperwork nowadays assuming the customer did their own homework.


Sure it is gonna happen, it currently does. Just about every restaurant offers their food for carry-out. The hostesses often make tips for walking to the kitchen and back to the front door. The cooks should be the ones tipped here IMO, or nobody.
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My salesman knew more than enough about the car to do a really good job had I not known anything, but of course I taught him a few of the more obscure tidbits so he can use them for the next buyers. Stuff I didn't have any expectations that they should or would know. As opposed to the common phrase "I've only been selling Scions for 2 weeks"..."I was at xxx before that". If after 2 weeks he still doesn't know 1% about the hottest selling vehicle on the lot, he most likely will be working somewhere else next month too. Still though, the salesman didn't sell me the car, rather I bought it through him :)

Just the basic stuff for at least the top sellers should be a no-brainer for any person wanting to sell cars. The ones that don't know basics are the ones we call stupid and useless. The ones that have been there for years, they do the research, just not as deeply as we do because that would take all their personal time. One or two, maybe 3 of the best vehicles sure, but not the whole fleet.

Incidentally, while typing out the last paragraph above I have indirectly found a good excuse for those we call stupid: perhaps they had 99% of the knowledge on the other models we weren't interested in? Nah...that might excuse a handful :D
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I like that, I'm stealing it.

YOU meaning the buying public.MUST know exactly what the dealer "cuts a check" for the car! this IS your starting point.some dealers will allow you to get into "holdback" some won't! ideally, you, (public) want to "catch" the dealer with a ton of inventory,and close to the end of the month ,when "sold inventory" counts towards future "allocation" of product.

Yep. You got it. Are you stupid salesman?

Here we treat every day as if it's the end of the month. We bring customers from far and wide because our local market is so competitive with sale pricing structures.

If you look at a dealer that's in their "own" market it would be a different scenario. They would sell less cars and have to make more money on every car. It sucks but it's what they gotta do to stay afloat.

I had a decent experience buying my BRZ...When I have studied the car and it's competitors I don't bother dicsussing it with them, I'm there to test and price.

Wife and I are in the process of upgrading our Harley though and man can those sales guys lie...everything from the height to w hich items are upgraded to the mileage on the used bikes. We actually took one out for a test drive THAT WAS SOLD to someone else, which they informed us when we got back...oh sucks to be that person.

I've encountered both.

I had a guy try to sell me a Pontiac G8 V6 with 7,500 miles on it as new (because it was a dealer car that was never sold) with a "Corvette engine" in it. Suffice to say I was kicked out of that place and told to never come back when I started laughing at his ignorance.

When I went to see the BRZ (Grand Subaru in Bensenville, IL) I already new a lot about the car and the sales person seemed to know a bit as well. He was an older gentleman, friendly and respectful so I had a pretty good experience there. He also took me out in the car to show me how to drive it for a bit since I hadn't driven a stick shift in years. Can't really complain about that.

I'm fine with a sales person not knowing a particular feature of a certain car, or trim level. For example, Toyota has 16 different vehicles, add that to Scion and that's 21 cars someone needs to have knowledge upon. So if you don't know some specific detail I researched for half an hour I'm not going to get a superiority complex from it. Just don't be a **** and start making things up like that Pontiac/Buick?GMC dealer I dealt with.

I remember the early days of Scion, where every Toyota dealership that carried the marque had a "Scion Champion." I even knew a few personally, and they were good sales people with a passion for cars and would be able to talk accurately and enthusiastically about the Scion product.

Sadly, those days are past. These people were ground into powder by their dealerships who had no damn clue about car enthusiasm and didn't give $0.02 about passion when it came to cars (a problem that it appears Toyota USA has finally started to realize). One of the best salesmen I knew was one of these guys. He was fantastic at his job, and sold more Scions in the Northeast Ohio region than the next few dealerships combined. He took care of his customers, which apparently management didn't agree with. After numerous incidents where he butted heads with two GMs, he was fired/quit. Sales at that dealership plummeted the next few months.

To this day, shopping for a Scion in a Toyota dealership is not the engaging experience it once was. You get whichever salesperson happens to walk up, and you're lucky if they know the difference between an xB and an xD. I was lucky in the purchase of my FR-S, the saleswoman, if a little disconnected, knew enough about cars to recognize the importance and passion surrounding the twins, and I actually had a few conversations with her that were more than me educating her about the car.

I guess my view is overly negative (especially considering how my friend was treated by the dealership he was working at), but I do miss the days of actually being able to talk intelligently about cars without raising my eyebrow at a statement from the salesperson.

It's very long but worth a read. Pretty insightful.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/co...esman-pg2.html

Thanks. I stopped reading about here "Everyone knows that the car salesman or woman is the enemy. He or she is the person we have to do battle with if we want a new car."

This is a pretty old article from 2001. The store that he worked at was also way old school. This mentality still exists but isn't as prevolent.

I skipped to the end and appreciate his closing thoughts:

The world of car buying is changing rapidly. Buyers are more informed. Dealers are more sensitive to their customers' satisfaction. But, like in many industries, the old ways die hard. So it is still important to be informed and to make a good decision when shopping for a car for yourself and your family.

Of all the advice I've offered, I'd just like to stress that it's important to remember that buying a car should benefit both you and the dealer. While I have focused on deflecting the sales techniques in the dealership, I don't recommend becoming overly defensive. If you deal fairly with the car salesperson, and you get the same in return, the transaction can be enjoyable — even exciting. It really should be. So, I wish all of you a great shopping experience and many years of driving pleasure in your new car.

I am in automotive sales. I act professional, train myself so I improve each day, have a great attitude about any situation, and know what to do when I do not have the correct answer. I go and find it. Customers can easily tell when your are BS'n them. I told myself when I entered Sales that I would make a career out of it and by doing that you have to be able to have a great attitude, knowledge about the product, sharpen your skills each day like any other profession. Customer service is what brings customers back. I understand that. Now if each Salesperson understood it we would not have these problems!

It's entertaining when you go to other dealers and see what your competition is. It's sad to see some of the people dealers hire to represent their business.

Salesman in the car industry or any industry need to understand you have a consumer who is willing to spend $1-$250,000+ on your product and on you. It's their hard earned money. The last thing they want is a bad experience while buying something they have been saving for years to purchase.

It's just ridiculous. I'm 23 and if I ever get to management which is my ultimate goal the Salespeople on my floor will know how treat customers and know their product and have a good attitude. If not, then they will not be representing my dealership.

Well said. I have been buying cars for over 40 years and have experienced all the games and tricks, falling victim to some of them. It is quite refreshing to work with a salesperson who is knowledgeable, professional, and truly a car person. My last 2 car purchases(Lexus and FRS) went extremely smoothly and I was very impressed with the Lexus salesman who was very well informed and had been working at the same dealership for many years, which is a rarity. Being a first 86'er I actually knew more about the FRS than the dealership, but on delivery the salesman actually knew more about the intricacies (ie radio) than I did. Unfortunately the service department didn't.

I think now....is the car choose the people. The sales make the crazy price for the car. I 'm gonna buy the deal from the owner. Did anyone sale the AT frs or brz

I used an autobroker for the first time buying an FRS and it was very nice. You tell them what you want, they go find it at a dealership and deliver it to you. They even picked up my trade in.

We spoke on the phone once and over email a few times, they found the FRS I wanted out of town. They had it delivered and met me at the credit union. Signed a few papers and got to drive it home. Their fee was $750. given that I did not have to deal with any of the dealerships and they gave me a better price on my trade in than I expected it was so worth the extra cost.

seriously,it's the ONLY way for you guys to survive! think about this! people buying cars today want the car to last,because it HAS to.the pricing on new vehicles is beyond logic.i would NOT want to be a car salesman these days!
not enough confidence in the industry.everything major just costs too much period,and it's gonna get even worse.people will be hangin' on to their s**boxes for 25 or more years if they can. food,gas, entertainment,housing,rent,...etc...etc..etc..(w.t .f.)