2013 model year, release date is spring 2012.

Looks nice! To be honest it looks like a very good photoshop. If the production car looks like that I would be happy. However, I think Subaru will make the front end more aggressive.

It does look p/s'd but he mentioned 2 trims levels but no price.

Better tail lights? They are identical from what I can tell. I see nothing different other than front bumper and fender grill.

Cars that come out in 2012 will almost always be 2013 models.
Especially if they come out after june or july.
Been that way for years.

Unless the Subaru version comes with more power or "something" significantly better than the Scion/Toyota version, there would be no reason for me, a die-hard Subaru enthusiast to buy the Subaru version.

Subaru's whole catch for most folks over the years has been AWD on all their cars. With this RWD sports car, the reason to buy the Subaru version would be an STi 300hp driveline in it.

As for aftermarket turbos for the NA version, we've been there and done that a ton of times over the years when we were working on 2.5RS Subies before the WRX came to the USDM market. It's a royal PITA and more expensive than it's worth for the subie engines in our opinion.

-mike

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True, but this car is rumored to come out in the spring, wouldn't that be really early for a 2013? Unless the rumor of spring is only for the Scion.

Any car sold after 1/1/12 can be a MY13 car.

When the WRX came to the USDM market as a MY02 car, it was on sale starting in March of 01 IIRC.

-mike

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://upload.pbase.com/image/137566671.jpg Call directly for your best Whiteline Price! | We also carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.
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"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

Ok, I just didn't think it was very common, I don't remember really ever hearing about something that early.

56.1-in. height = :thumbdown:

So goes another missed opportunity.

Sounds like the general consensus is that its a chop. Imo that's a good thing if this was supposed to be the US version, cause those tails still need to go.

Amen :word:

+1 ....i still can't decide between char or white and this photo isn't helping. :fighting0040:

Yeah now that I think about it, what would be the appeal or getting the Subaru over the Toyota. Both car equally has good looks and almost the same identical specs, if Subaru plans on having only 3000 of these a year then what's the catch? what would make it better than the Scion ? too many hypotheticals it just need to be nov 30th and we get alot of answers.

I don't think so, this car would cost 35k+ to start with 300hp. The cost of producing a 300hp sports car is more then just adding a turbo. This car will sell to the masses because of LOOKS and PRICE, they won't care one bit how much hp and trq it has.

I think it's fairly accepted here that the subaru will come with many more amenities that come standard that would be accesories or not even available on the Scion. The fit and finish is estimated to be of higher quality and thus resulting in a higher price tag. This is, of course, all speculation that I remember reading at various places on this site.

Wake me up from this bad dream!
 

Someone tell me this is wrong No torque and giving me a nose bleed when i step up into my SUV (FT86).
As a daily drive you must have torque,look at the last celica as a daily drive.
Even a KIA KOUP has more torque!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

Actually referring to the modelista page if you take a look at the automatic transmission one. You can notice that it has a mode toggle:


http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...2&d=1320645345

:burnrubber:To each their own:iono:, I enjoy being able to use all or most the power a car has to offer, 200/151 will be a blast in this package. I have had high power cars and mid/low power cars, would rather grab a car by the scruff and wring all it has out of it then baby the go pedal all the time.

I guess I'll be among the few that believe this isn't a render and it's a slightly touched-up production photo. I never really thought there was going to be much difference between the BRZ and Toyota/Scion version other than the nose and trim. It would have been nice to see more differences, especially the tail lights, but that's what the aftermarket is for.

I did find it interesting that R&T suggested that Scion was going to carry less than premium trim... sounds like it'll be the "Low Spec" with a leather steering wheel, paddles for AT, and a 6 speaker system. No leather/Alcantara seats (except for Release Series), no AT LSD, no factory fogs (Scion accessory), no HIDs, and no push-button start. I don't expect the lower trim BRZ to be much different than the Scion except having the ability to add individual premium options.

Tripping, everytime I see 300hp in this forum I also see awd with it. 300hp awd goes together to well like the STi :scared0016:

Yeah June 2012 is still spring....lol..

I could've sworn that Scion mentioned that the LSD will appear on all models (well there's only one model technically)

I would be very happy with that as an owner, its simple and minimalistic. Wouldnt attract unwanted attention by police and getting keyed by twats in car parks, would almost be a sleeper car, just the way i want.

Now just need to wait for Nick Senior to give it the ok for Australia.

I think with a few bolt-ons and a nice tune this car is going to be a blast to drive. And for those who want more power just wait for a turbo or supercharger kit I'm sure even with a compression ratio like that someone will come out with something.

Not gonna happen, both cars will be built on the same assembly line. The only difference will be front bumper and badges. The Subaru will have two trim levels just like the Toyota 86, the scion frs will have one trim level..with trd options.

Why would the come with completely different interiors? That would just add to their bottom line.

Scion frs will most likely be high-spec ft86 based with a radio.

The interior and dash will most likely be the same...just a different badge on the steering wheel. If you notice everything looks generic in the interior for a reason.

You have to build off what will be offered by what was leaked in the training brochure. Sure that could have been faked to throw us off but not after the teaser video released last week.

I Like driving a car to its full .(clubman race car)
 

But as a daily you can not race every time every day.

Race driver friend of mine Touring Car legend (RX3/RX7s) owned a Honda S2000 not even as a daily and got rid of it because of what i stated above.

How could this car be taller than Mazda Rx8 which is 52.8 . The info just doesn't look right. And I was really hopping for more torque.

Enthusiasts as yourself and like many here are going to be biased towards one or the other. We tend to have a perspective that is difficult to deviate from, especially when seeing the bigger picture.

Some points that can sway the consumer either way;
1. Styling - obviously the front and rear facia will be different and people just like Subaru styling over Toyota and vise versa..its a personal preference.
2. Dealer Options - STI and TRD are going to be busy supplying certain items that appeal to certain people. Much like how there are Subaru guys here and Toyota guys here.
3. Colors - between the two companies, different manufacturer colors will be available, and some people would rather put more importance on color vs styling especially one who may end up going aftermarket aero.
4. Interior - While we have only seen the Toyota version thus far, the basic shape and structure will most likely be the same on the subaru version but have very subaru unique features. eg, seats/steeringwheel, fabric type and fabric colors, STI console. TRD console.

For someone to be sway either way due to mechanical differences is not an average consumer. And enthusiasts only make up a small portion of the population that will actually buy this car.


Yeah, i understand why you would think its a real photo. But its not. The image looks like studio lighting, but for Road and Track to have studio shots before the reveal in 3 days before anyone else is highly unlikely. The Lighting and reflection base of the car are inconsistent for studio lights and backdrop. The unaturallity make the white car Matt/flat white, rather pure white finish, which has a deeper reflective effect when studio lighting is placed. Also Road and Track have in the past used artists to draw and render cars for their magazine articles. Also real photos are not chopped, and blended into the background like what this article does. Its bad practice, and can be misleading.

Scions business gimmic includes mono-spec which is likely to be low-spec for US marketing. Which allows the lowest price possible without haggle and gives you freedom to add parts/ eg wheels.

Subarus business practice does not follow Scion suit and the two companies shouldn't reflect each others sales practice. Meaning the BRZ will likely offer a Base and a Premium model.

It's all about the tires, and the balance of the car. My current winter car here in Colorado is a Miata with Continental ExtremeWinterContact tires on it, in a size narrower and with taller sidewall than stock (rally style). In the type of snow I encounter, the all around driving characteristics in this setup are better than the WRX I had with all season tires (they were Continental ExtremeContact DWS, which are supposed to have some of the best snow capability of current all seasons). The WRX would've been an amazing machine in the snow with snow tires, but the Miata has been excellent with snows, and that's on a 2nd gen Miata with no traction control, no lsd, no abs. With snow tires, the Miata has outstanding braking and great cornering, but in the icier patches you do have to be gentler with the throttle to help the rear tires hook up off the line (something that the lsd and traction control will help with in the BRZ/FR-S). The main limiting factor is the ground clearance, there's only so much snow that the Miata can plow with the bumper. The kind of depth that would get it stuck would probably cause them to close I-70 anyways, though. Lots of people in Europe got by with RWD in snow for a long time. I think a lot of the AWD craze in the US is a marketing thing.

People keep thinking the high-spec model if super equipped...it's not.

In the leaked high-spec trim, you get a leather steering wheel, 17 inch rims, sport seats, push button start, aluminum pedals, hids, fog lights, automatic climate control.

You want all these options...if the price is going to be $24k
Where is leather seats, Bluetooth, radio, 18 inch rims, brembo brakes, navigation, sunroof, power seats with memory?

Personally I don't want any of that...i just want what is in the high-spec trim level.

Except for the hids and fog lights a 2012 scion tC release 7 comes better equipped.

Scion has to price this car higher than the tC. So figure $24k if we are lucky. Subaru has to price the BRZ less than the wrx...so figure $25k max.

We could be suprised and scion releases two trim levels. We will see next week.
This is a new car for both brands scion and Subaru...both don't have a rwd sports car.

Hey everything is speculation until final reveal in less than 3 days. We will have all our answers then.

I agree i faired very well in my 300zx and rx7 in the snow. and while AWD does provide additional traction, its spoiled peoples view of real safety during ill weather transport. AWD can be just as effective AND non-effective in ill weather as any 2wd vehicle.

Well I was referencing the Jack Hollis presentation when they showed the FR-S concept when he mentioned the LSD. Though I do think radio would be included for the FR-S.

Remind me what's the overall performance difference on 16" and 17" wheels. That 1 extra inch should give you more grip?

I honestly don't think so. I mean, for $2,000 - $3,000 more, you can get a v6 mustang with a bunch of power, and pretty nice interior.

Why would we pay more to have less power and less weight? Deep down i wish this would replace the tC and leave it the same price. For $23k, one can get a heavy GC, but the majority of people don't look at weight, they look at HP, so many will say oh wow i rather get a GC or a 'Stang because it's so much more powerful.

And as for the snow talk, man I am so glad I live in South FL, I watch on tv those under bad snow days and see it really does suck. Our rain is really bad too, cuz our dirt isn't really dirt, its like sand.

:thanks::thanks::thanks::thanks::thanks::thanks:

i second that Rwd in the snow is fine with the correct tires. i used winterforce tires on my factory 14 on my 85 ae86 and loved every minute. and used some all season tire one my s2000 and just took it easy and didn't drive in real deep stuff.. I'de take a rwd with good snow tires against any awd with shit tires in a race any day.

the torque being reported is as much as the ap1 s2k's (or close enough)

I'm in for the first gen.. i once said i wouldn't unless higher HP, but i can't afford more than 25k in the spring.. so it gives me and TRD/Sti time:)..

The extra inch on the wheels doesn't add any grip. That's the diameter dimension not the width. The larger rim just means a thinner tire sidewall and theoretically a less comfortable ride.

Unless anything drastic happens I'm also planning on being in for the first gen. I'm still undecided on BRZ vs. FR-S though, it will probably come down to colors and available trim levels.

... Wait... why would you want a thinner sidewall? I understand that tires aren't going to last forever, but ... well... how is thinner better? I hope that's not another excuse you can use for less weight...

Thinner can provide less lateral movement, but it isn't necessarily better. The thinner sidewall is just a result of the larger diameter rim.