To me the 86 front looks meaner, more aggressive. I simply don't like the black bar on the Subie front. I think the interior and build will be better than the Subie, so I would try to fit a Toyota/Scion front bar on the Subie. I'd probably get the Scion/Toyota though because it will probably be cheaper.

Who knows, but I remember reading that the subaru will have a slightly different supension setup.

We need to do this poll over!

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1322712818
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...8&d=1322712790

fucking yuck compared to


http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1322613572
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1322613572

EWWWWWWWWW

After seeing all the pics, Scion sucks compared to the BRZ. I was not expecting that... HVAC is shit, radio is shit, on the front bar the 2 grills on the side looks very cheap on the Scion. However, if the cost is justified (like $5000) less than the BRZ it's acceptable. You can just buy all the Toyota parts you want from the 86 and put it on your FR-S.

I like the Scion because it seems more basic and sporty.

Too bad you'll still be driving a Subaru.

leaning towards brz

Yeah, you'll be reminded every time you pop that hood that it's a Subaru!




I thought the Subaru interior was bland until I saw the Scion. But honestly, because they are supposed to be low in price, it's not that big of a deal. That looks like what the BRZ Premium @ 25K MSRP will get you and judging how how the FR-S is a step down in quality, it could be a couple grand less than the BRZ Premium. That might help sway new buyers, especially the younger ones.

Lol did you guys see over at Autoblog? the BRZ is winning the poll by about 300 to 400 people. it's totally the opposite of here it's funny apprantely they don't think it's the same car XD!!!

OMG!! This reminds me of the Eagle-Talon and the Eclipse Back in the day :bonk:

I have switch sides to the BRZ because of the cheapness of the FRS, not because of the styling.

Performance
FR-S > BRZ (why? Because FR-S should be lighter)

Cost
FR-S > BRZ (obvious reasons, doesn't come loaded with everything off hand and therefore cheaper)

Interior
BRZ = FR-S (because it comes with everything loaded, but if you are like me, you think dual climate in a little ass car is stupid so I like the simple layout of the FR-S. It has the tC2 dash basically.)


Exterior is subjective

And every time you park it and get out and take a glance back, you'll be reminded that it's a Toyota :thumbsup:

You don't have to do anything but get in and out to have that thought.

Only half the motor is Subaru, but ALL of the design is Toyota.

According to Subaru, Toyota did nothing on the engine but supply the DI tech.

Am I the only person here that thinks the FR-S interior is better than the BRZ?

You know thats not true, or cant be confirmed. But if you look at the other drivetrain components you will see the subaru parts bin was used as well as its technology from other models.

The point here is there that there is no ignoring the accomplishments of subaru in the joint venture.

Damn subaru fanboys. Tell me the last time Subaru made a RWD coupe.

BTW. I like the interior of the scion more too. The steering wheel, CF dash trim, and white face tach all look better than BRZ's.

Im bout to switch to FRS side because, I like BRZ for it's exterior but Im a practical person and I really don't need all that extra stuff like Standard NaV inside ;/ thought I really want to try putting a BRZ front on a FRS Sileighty style ! I really don't like paying so much for things I don't need :/

The main difference for a driving enthusiast, would be the slightly softer rear suspension and firmer front for the subie compared to the FRS which has firmer rear and softer front suspension settings from the factory.

This may mean the FRS may be slightly more easy to drift while the BRZ might be slightly better around the corners. But for the average driver, this difference will be entirely negligible.

exactly, this is the only real known difference so far, aside from aesthetics. generally cars rear natural suspension frequencies are 80% that of the front, so the scion will be closer to equal spring rates between teh two. although ti also depends on antiroll bar stiffness, this will generally lead to a slight increase in oversteer tendency. i also wonder if the dampers will be any different. if the geometries/A-arms are the same id say its a wash though, as i bet most opt for aftermarket suspension pieces anyway, and adjustable aftermarket sway bars are almost inevitable. i really want to know if the rest fo the components will be the same. ive also heard the toyota will offer some sort of selection of transmission gear ratios, no idea if that will carry over to the subaru, much less the US at all.


what leads you to believe the FRS will be lighter? your cost comparison seems to make a lot of assumptions...

exterior aesthetics and direct injection are toyota. all teh real engineering is subaru, as evidenced by all the car magazine reporters who were invited to test drive and talk to the engineers.

obviously the sames are more plentiful than the differences of these base models. i believe this is where the two companies are splitting, however, the next generation of increased performance models (ie TRD/supercharged yota and STi/turbod suby) will what define the difference. also, subaru seems to have already engineered a GT300 car from it, this seems to suggest they know what they wanted in the chassis (as we do know they did the most development/engineering) and i suspect their performance model will better embrace those things than the toyota.

that being said, if the car control is really as refined as they say id probably still prefer natural aspiration... heres to hoping somebody releases a lightweight, bare bones model

why cheapness?

We did see Gushi drifting the FR-S on Sodegaura. Its suspension may be tuned more for the track and the BRZ tuned more for comfort. Noise, vibration, and harshness (NVH levels) could be less on the BRZ which would justify higher cost.

the difference (which is only in spring and damper rates, mind you - and thus only applies if keeping them stock) is that the FRS has more neutral steering (more even spring rates front and rear, and iirc slightly stiffer damping) while the BRZ is tuned more for balance/stability.

How in the hell is half the engine Toyota's?? I didn't know D/I makes up half the engine? Lol!! And last time I checked Toyota doesn't make boxer motors. Anybody can easily see what Toyota did in this car.

Toyota

Styling
D4-S
Interior

Subaru

Engine
Platform
Suspension
Interior

For it is more a Toyota, as baby LFA. Because Toyota did not have anything good other than FWD and Hybrids, they used everything from Subaru. So yes from technical point it is a Subaru, from conceptional point it is a Toyota.

This. :thumbup:

So Yamaha didn't do the heads then? If not, then I digress that it's half Toyota. Credit is due to Toyota a little more than what is given imo still. From my understanding Subaru rejected the whole concept of the car, until it was after Toyotas presistence that the car was developed. So kudos for to them for turning Subaru into a beliver.

It really doesn't matter to me one way or the other. They are the same car.

It is all he said she said when it comes down to in unless you were sitting in the meetings people are going to speculate and the companies are going to "market" the car how they see fit

Yep, seems to also come down to BRZ interior vs GT86/FR-S exterior when it comes to peoples decisions on which one to go with. They like the GT86/FR-S exterior more, but want the BRZ's interior (at least with the FR-S they do).

Will be interesting to see how this dilemma will change once the options for the FR-S are known.

It also seems like Toyota has been in the spot light giving test drives/reviews a little more than Subaru

^True that. I was curious though as to why in the middle of all the complaints of no Push start for the FR-S and what not, that no one thought to just make their own Push Start? You can make a push start out of a cigarette lighter if you really wanted too...lol. Or go buy a cool button from the Aftermarket store/site and make one.

Or pick up an S2k push start button from the Honda dealer or pull-a-part junk yard.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-PU...9134%26ps%3D54

i suspect toyota was eager to get it out to the public, release photos, get test drives, to promote the notion that this car had more, or at least a lot, to do with them relative to subaru. using this forum as a gauge id say they were successful. subaru seems to have taken the opposite, get it all nailed down, release a GT300 BAMF simultaneously, and only allow limited invited test drives. saying that now, leads me to believe a performance version will come out of the subaru camp sooner.

http://www.japanparts.com/images/Ima...ase=1&no=39505

^Works for me..

Sorry Toyota fanbois, but most of the development and parts came from Subaru. The chassis, motor, suspension, are all Subie. Toyota did indeed create this car conceptually, and I give credit where credit is due- but this is mostly Subaru's creation.

Letting the flaming begin...

Which one? My considerations
 

It's a difficult choice, but I think there are interesting differentiators:

1. I'll bet the two cars are aimed at different markets; one of baby boomers looking to re-experience the sports cars of the 60s-70s and maybe do some auto crossing, the other of gen-x or gen-y looking to buy their second Scion and maybe do some drifting. Evidence? Those subtly different suspension settings and the different tires.

2. Assuming the aftermarkets also remain differentiated (and I'm not so sure about this), the difference between turbocharging a BRZ and supercharging an FR-S. Difference response (and different soundtrack) for different folks.

3. I may be wrong about this one, but here goes.... interior shots of the two cars suggest a slightly plainer treatment for the FR-S; no digital ventilation controls, no LCD center screen, no silvered dash panel.

I lean towards the Subaru because we already have a Forester that's been a pleasure to own and drive, with a dealership that's a pleasure to visit. And I'm demographically a baby boomer. All that being said, I devoutly hope that when I want a bit more power for track day outings, I'll be able to raid the TRD parts bin. Oh dear.... I'm back at square one... glad I won't be buying until fall 2012.

Simple elegance, Less is MORE
 

DIfferent strokes for different folks...
While I like the general color scheme of the Scion..
the Faux carbon look will make me into a "RICER"..
and since I am Asian to begin with ... its NOT helping

The reason I drive a VW now is to get away from the
typical stereo-type ... I will go with the BRZ's style
since its more mature in a manner.

well i dont think anybody on a forum really know anything about what went on to create this car so well just ignore that fact for a while...it sounds to me like you are giving more credit to the construction workers than the architect. also, calling the motor all subaru is a joke. those things combined with the fact that toyota has to own a significant percentage of subaru makes this whole of pointless...but this is a forum so carry on

It is faux carbon but I think the pattern is the Toyota motif seen in the gauge cluster and front grille, which is pretty cool.

If the price is right, under 24k, then I can get over the whole owning a Scion part of it. I'll rebadge anyway. :D

all else being equal... that shiney ass silver dash would annoy me

:word: I like the dark colored dash better, whether it's faux CF or just painted black doesn't matter.