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-   Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Where does all the rear weight come from? (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17772)

carbonBLUE 09-22-2012 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahausheer (Post 451610)
This car has a pretty good weight distribution, as we all know. But when I picture things in my head I see an engine and a transmission with their weight almost completely supported by the front suspension. In the back is the diff and fuel tank (not so heavy). How does this car achieve a near 50 50 weight distribution with almost all of the heavy stuff at or in front of the front wheels? Where does the weight supported by the rear suspension come from?

most of the weight is structural in the rear
even though the engine and transmission are mounted up front
the engine and transmission is mostly alloy, other than the gears/clutch and a few other mis things, here's the corner weight of the frs/brz/gt86


Quote:

Originally Posted by jdrxb9 (Post 158935)
Saw this on the scca forums - original thread with pics is at sub---brzf----

LF 746 RF 765
LR 621 RR 591

Total 2723

Limited
Preproduction
No driver
"Tank was prob' about half full given where the car came from."

with that being said 1511lbs in the front 1212 lbs in the rear
55.49% front and 44.51% rear

rounded to the closest % its 55% and 45%

regal 09-22-2012 05:55 AM

The weight split discussion has to include wheel base. Ever been on a teeter-totter when you were a kid? Same physics.

SUB-FT86 09-22-2012 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miniata (Post 453560)
No. Moving the stock battery to the trunk means adding even more weight with cables and a box. A better solution (unless running a big stereo) is putting a small lightweight battery in the stock location. Save 20+ lbs over the front end with few downsides. I have a 2 lb lithium battery for my Miata for autocrossing, and my normal street battery for the Miata is a 7 lb AGM battery.

The cables certainly can't be heavy enough to offset the battery. And part of the cables will lead onto the rear side of the car.

2760 lbs

55% is 1518 and 45% is 1242.

What happens when you shift a 30+ lb battery from front to rear?

54% is 1490.4 and 46% is 1269.6

The balance is increase to 54/46 instead of 55/45.

How much weight does the cable add? Like less than 5 lbs?

regal 09-22-2012 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86 (Post 454434)
The cables certainly can't be heavy enough to offset the battery. And part of the cables will lead onto the rear side of the car.

2760 lbs

55% is 1518 and 45% is 1242.

What happens when you shift a 30+ lb battery from front to rear?

54% is 1490.4 and 46% is 1269.6

The balance is increase to 54/46 instead of 55/45.

How much weight does the cable add? Like less than 5 lbs?


No offense but calculating weight distribution is not this simple. The weight distribution change depends on how far the change is from cog which changes when you move the weight around , the constant is the wheelbase. I am sure someone has an excel spreadsheet on the web that will do it for you if you are this concerned about it.

SUB-FT86 09-22-2012 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by regal (Post 454445)
No offense but calculating weight distribution is not this simple. The weight distribution change depends on how far the change is from cog which changes when you move the weight around , the constant is the wheelbase. I am sure someone has an excel spreadsheet on the web that will do it for you if you are this concerned about it.

What does the cog have to do with F/R balance? It doesn't make a bit of sense. A car can have a low cog and still have terrible balance F/R.

regal 09-22-2012 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86 (Post 454449)
What does the cog have to do with F/R balance? It doesn't make a bit of sense. A car can have a low cog and still have terrible balance F/R.

You are confusing vertical COG with horizontal COG with COG (x,y, and z) just use wikipedia.

Here is a spreadsheet I found in 15 seconds with google. Didn't review it. If you are interested check it out.

http://www.smithees-racetech.com.au/...worksheet.html

Miniata 09-22-2012 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86 (Post 454434)
The cables certainly can't be heavy enough to offset the battery. And part of the cables will lead onto the rear side of the car.

2760 lbs

55% is 1518 and 45% is 1242.

What happens when you shift a 30+ lb battery from front to rear?

54% is 1490.4 and 46% is 1269.6

The balance is increase to 54/46 instead of 55/45.

How much weight does the cable add? Like less than 5 lbs?

even if the calculations were that simple (they aren't) you're still adding at least 5 lbs with appropriately sized cables and a box to move a small bit of the weight balance to the rear when you could achieve the same effective result by using a 5-7 lb battery up front and also reduce the overall weight of the car.

SUB-FT86 09-22-2012 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miniata (Post 454517)
even if the calculations were that simple (they aren't) you're still adding at least 5 lbs with appropriately sized cables and a box to move a small bit of the weight balance to the rear when you could achieve the same effective result by using a 5-7 lb battery up front and also reduce the overall weight of the car.

I guess BMW is retarded for putting a battery in the back then. But then that's one of the reasons BMW cars are known for the 50/50 weight distribution.

Also a 5-7 lb battery doesn't sound like one you would daily drive with.

Miniata 09-22-2012 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86 (Post 454855)
I guess BMW is retarded for putting a battery in the back then. But then that's one of the reasons BMW cars are known for the 50/50 weight distribution.

Also a 5-7 lb battery doesn't sound like one you would daily drive with.

Not retarded at all. Neither is Mazda for putting the battery in the trunk of my Miata - from the factory. I have no issue when manufacturers do it, just don't see it as being necessary to move the battery to the trunk when it didn't come there from the factory, except for specific applications like when a race car is under required weight for its class and ballast is needed, and a big heavy battery in the trunk could be one way to achieve that.

As to the daily-drivability of a small lightweight AGM or lithium battery? They actually work better on daily driven cars than on cars that are parked and only driven every week or two. Not keeping the small batteries charged up is what kills them, not using them daily. I've been using smaller, lighter batteries in daily driven (and rarely driven autocross/track cars) for 10+ years, from Neons to Mustangs to my Miata.

raul 09-22-2012 06:48 PM

Another thing that helps with weight distribution is the fact that the hood is aluminum, while the trunk lid isn't.

Dadhawk 09-23-2012 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miniata (Post 454517)
even if the calculations were that simple (they aren't) you're still adding at least 5 lbs with appropriately sized cables and a box to move a small bit of the weight balance to the rear when you could achieve the same effective result by using a 5-7 lb battery up front and also reduce the overall weight of the car.

It can make a huge difference, easily offsetting the weight of the cables. The battery in the car now sits relatively close to the COG, which means it has minimal impact on COG, at least the horizontal component.

If you move it further out on the rear ARM (moving it towards the rear of the car and further from the COG) the same weight gets amplified and move the the COG much more effectively. As someone above mentioned, its just like a see-saw (basic lever).

This is used in experimental aircraft all the time. you can offset a significant portion the weight of a 200lb engine just by putting the battery in end of the tail cone.


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