I can attest, the fa20dit's setup creates a much more linear feeling. I was referencing the EJ line of WRX.

Not sure I would do it again as I am still trying to amortize the cost of doing it once by keeping this car long term. If it isn't winter driven and the maintenance is performed when needed I see no reason this wouldn't still be a cool car ten years from now. I have around 65300 km (34K miles) on it now.

On the other hand my other vehicle (2018 STI) is 99% stock and isn't as much fun from a hands -on perspective.

I might want to try a sports car that is already fully prepped to my expectations from the factory next time simply due to reliability. For me it was about the experience. But since I am not a mechanic, there is a time factor involved that I don't always have available to figure things out.

In summation, glad I did it, not sure I could see myself doing it again in my present situation

For me, my FRS with catless header and tune (running east coast 93 octane or 100 on the track for extra safety margin) was about perfect. Reliable, sounded great, was near even with stock s2000's on the straights.

Now that I've moved to socal, I'm back to stock header and tune on 91 octane. It's noticeably slower. I'm going to try e85 to see if that is enough.

Was trying to stay NA for reliability, but if e85 doesnt cut it, I'll probably look into an Edelbrock SC.

for the amount of money i spent, supercharging, blowing a motor, going turbo and buying a used motor I would DEFINITELY not do it again. It's a great platform don't get me wrong, but if I knew I would spend this much, I would rather have invested in a k-miata and shit on everything at the track with 500+whp on a stock k block with 0 problems in a car that I could get to weigh around 2000lbs.

knowing that I would have spent this much I probably would have gotten an M235i or Porsche Cayman S and left either of those cars both stock. But that's boring so that's why I got a BRZ to modify to my heart's content which I think which appeals to a lot. There's a lot you can do with this car and I think it's just a matter of doing it right.

Similar boat, on engine 3, blew one NA, one on Edelbrock with Jackson dual rad, the "safe setup". Lot of money but I really love the chassis! I know plenty of guys who have popped them and every built FA20 I've seen popped as well so that option doesn't feel safe either. They're a **** to tear down and rebuild from the RTV. They're highly strung, high revving, 12.5:1 comp on rod bearings that are dying to spin.

Doesn't exactly stop me from hitting the track but I don't know why the wife puts up with me or the car.

If I had to do it again I would either get a used 15+ for cheap now ($12k) and leave it NA and spend minimally for e85/headers/tune/tires, swap in a 2J / LS or get a Cayman S.

Tons of E85, depending on where you're located.

Come check out 86cup!

Glad I’m not the only one! If you want boost buy a closet full of used FA20’s. These engines are disposable with power. Can’t wait to have a setup that makes great power on 91 without boost!!

Planning on it! Just need to find some time :(

I’m on E85 now. It is awesome! I’m working on trying to get a pump in my area because, as of now, it is about thirty minutes away, which is part of my temporary commute. By the end of next year when I no longer do a long commute, I will be sadly missing E85.

every built fa20 you know of has popped? I just had one built and your scaring me now lol..

Be afraid very afraid. I would only do it if it was either built, installed, and tuned by you or under one roof. If one shop builds the motor, another installs it and then someone else tunes it there is nobody to accept responsibility when shit hits the fan. Tuner will blame the engine builder and mechanic, engine builder will blame the tuner it's the circle of blame game. Just be careful of a shop telling you they warranty their engine because in reality they won't. I could of had a stock pile of 6-8 used FA20's for the money I wasted on my 2 built motors.

Well it was completely all under one house. Not like even then a shop will accept responsibility and front a repair/replacement.

You've blown 2 built fa20's? Were you going for some big numbers or keeping things reasonable. I'm at 420 wheel, 10.5 compression, 85. Trying to keep things dialed back for longevity.
I feel your pain brotha.

It's funny...
 

I literally just yesterday was dead even with a seemingly stock 2017 wrx from a dig on Cali91with just a catless header and cat back. My car is flex fuel but I'm running Cali91right now.

Jaden

Sure...
 

See my last post. Every wrx ive ran into was the same. Id walk it with e85 in the tank...

Jaden

As has been said the way boost comes on in the wrx makes it seem faster than it is, you're driving it separate from your twin. Besides your twin is boosted isn't it? It shouldn't even be close between your cars.

Yep. Mine were both standard compression because I was almost always running E85. You were smart to lower compression. My other suggestion would be to shift at 7K. Neither were making big power at all. I was just shooting for 400 plus WHP supercharged but never even got close. First set up was on a Rotrex and I quickly learned you cannot make big power with a C38 on an FA20, don't care what anyone else tells you. That engine blew on the dyno after a very gentle 3K mile break in on less than a bar of boost.

2nd engine was on a TVS1320 on the standard pulley on E85 so like 330 WHP and blew after only 1K miles. I've been close to giving up on the platform many times but always come back to it because of how well it fits me and the analog feel. There will never be another new car that's as back to basics as the 86 and I love that about it. Finally made the call to eliminate arguably the 2 biggest weaknesses of the platform the engine and transmission. I know it will hardly be an 86 anymore but steering feel and handling characteristics should still remain intact.

JRSC C30 (factory tune) totally transformed my car. I have installed and I am doing all of the maintenance. There has not been a single down day, car never refused to start after 20k miles in all weathers of Northeast. It is my everyday car. I can't imagine the car without the supercharger anymore. I think most of the problems we see here are installation errors, tune problems, or too much boost (especially at low rpm), or just bad luck that can happen even without boost.

I would boost again with the following simple rules.
- This is a high revving, high compression engine. Keep the boost low. Don't aim for low rpm torque.
- Use an oil cooler
- Install properly!
- Get the best tune, not the cheapest

Stock vs stock, same driver, etc. I would think a WRX should be at least two seconds a lap faster than a BRZ almost anywhere, and much more at a big track. Lightning Lap a >3 second gap at VIR. I'd be surprised if the difference was not similar at Homestead and Sebring where I put in my laps. The BRZ is fun and does a lot things right, but the fact is, it's pretty slow.


I agree the WRX is idiot proof, but to its credit, it is also a lot of fun to drive. It's pretty well suspended and has a lot of tire for what it is. The dire need for cooling, brakes, and a major retune, gave me the excuse to switch platforms and start over, though.

From a dig until what? Did they do anything or just let out the clutch gently and roll onto the throttle? You may have an advantage out of the hole unless the driver is ready to throw down. My friend has a stock 15 wrx with a tune he did himself. Full launch he does a 12.9s 1/4. With heated up 200tw tires, header, catless front pipe and dynotune on 93, I barely can get a low 14. With a 2.2 60ft. The longer the distance, the more of a gap he'd put on me.

It would be a rare exception to see this car in n/a bolt on form to be the equal of an fa20DIT or EJ257/255 car driven by someone who either knows how to launch awd or is ready to bet their driveline on putting you in their rearview. And when the temperature dips below freezing, if they've deleted the egt heater it's crazy.

And please don't misunderstand; our cars can be pretty quick, just not quite that much so easily. With the exception of someone running a crazy high diff ratio haha

Thats actually almost unbelievable how quickly your engines blew. I would expect a non built fa20 to last a lot longer with either of those set ups. Do you know what let go both times? I hope you finally achieve piece of mind with your engine swap, if anybody deserves it, its you.

Cheers brotha.

In this instance...
 

Until traffic prevented going any further or about 75mph.

Other times have been with e85 on the freeway up to 120-125. But driving skill is a bigger factor there. Although both of those claimed to have stage2Cobb tunes.


Jaden

Wow blowing a built motor, must be either oil, or tuning issue i know of a few people 3 with build motore just refresh tho and 7 stock internals with supercharge and turbo builts no issues and yes they track them too

My WRX will pull on my BRZ at any speed except perhaps a 5mph roll, where the BRZ briefly makes more output at very low rpm.

My WRX on ethanol will walk a stock CBA.

Does your car have a significant amount of weight reduction? Weight matters a lot.

I cannot stress that enough.

I would boost again if given the chance. 100%.

Thats what i like to hear!

The WRX has a lot going for it, so I think it would win, especially on a track where the surface is suspect or one that has a lot of straight aways. I gotta think that the WRX has some disadvantages to the 86 that would level the fields some. For one, its engine is higher (like 8”) and further forward (like 10”). It is so far forward that the transmission is inline with the front axles, so it can have symmetric AWD. Then there is the 400lbs extra weight, which means the 86 will probably handle the corners better and prevail in late braking. Just saying. It wouldn’t be a slam dunk by the WRX.

when were we talking about a modded wrx...
 

No one brought up power for cost or anything, I responded to someone claiming that if they wanted a car with 300 hp they would buy a wrx or they would like a stock wrx drivetrain in a twin.

I responded that anyone who thinks a stock wrx is vastly superior to a twin is on crack and I will stand by that.

You can say whatever you want. I've beaten a stage 2 cobb tuned wrx on the freeway on e85 and I just stayed straight up, light to light with a new wrx on cali 91 with just a stage 2 tune and a catless header.

Say they're shitty drivers, fine, but they aren't walking a twin all that readily is all I'm saying.

Your WRX is not stock and you're an awesome driver, so it's hard to use you as a comparison.

Jaden

It may not be about them being a junk driver. A lot of people think they are racing on the street when the other driver hops on the throttle for a bit and lets off. I'm not saying your situation was that, but on the trolling car scene pages on facebook here I see slower cars talking about how they destroyed a much faster car on the street all the time. Most people don't like tickets is what it comes down to.

I'm with mike on this. I drove (my) 15 WRX for years prior to going the BRZ route.
As you said, the twinscroll is by no means a gentle curve to max boost and it can be very deceiving, but it is still a faster car in a straight line on the street.

Is it vastly superior? Not really. Is it noticeably faster (not just due to boost, but overall), yes.

For the record I still have a 15 wrx in my driveway right next to the BRZ. I prefer the BRZ by far, so there isn't a bias.

It takes very little skill to go WOT in a straight line, especially in a car like a 15+ wrx that has very tall gears.

If you pulled on a stage 2 WRX on 91, that WRX must have a very poor tune!

A 200whp ethanol NA 86 simply is not competition for a 290whp 91 catless FA20DIT WRX, even considering the weight difference!

200whp/2950lbs (including driver) vs 240whp (stock)/3430lbs (including driver). Even with this ricer math, the WRX has superior power to weight, as well as a much, much fatter powerband.

If you were racing a clone yourself with a stock WRX, i would 100% put my money on the WRX.

As they say, anything can happen on the street, and there are many, many badly running WRX's and untuned WRX's out there. Anyone claiming a "stage" is just a big thumbs down from me.

^ Just my .02

EDIT: Mike commented between this and my last post... This was directed at myself.

I would absolutely boost again. I went with an easy setup (Sprintex 210), on E85 flexfuel, with a moto-east tune. I did the install myself, and haven't had a single issue in 30k miles.

I'm likely only making 275-285whp depending on temperature, but that is plenty, especially when you consider that I don't track the car or have amazing roads in rural Indiana. I get to have a bit of fun here and there, and plenty of scream/whine from the SC!

My entire cost of boost for me sits at $2950 (used SC, oil, tune, flexfuel). Amazing value, none of the mess that folks with big power complain over!

... I was a bit scared to post, as now I'll probably throw a rod tomorrow morning. But let's hope everything stays healthy! :)

This feedback is always good. User feedback. Biggest thing I've learned though all of my automobile triumphs and quests is a simple statement.

Happiness is simply your reality vs your expectations. What are we really expecting?

This current group of FT86/BRZ owners is still a large group of individuals who paid $20k+ for the vehicle on average and it stings a bit when weighing in on the performance aspect vs other platforms. I'm extremely excited as the prices plummet because this next wave is going to be the "hoonigans" to stuff the FA24 etc etc in this thing. The "I picked up my brz for $5-$8k crowd." Then there's going to be a huge wave.

It's hard to toss a 60k powertrain warranty out of the window for a few ponies. I think we have to keep the engineering of the vehicles in mind and what it was designed for, its extremely balanced. I watch the S-Chassis so closely because I think this platform is headed down the same path.

There will be a FA STi and there will be a more performance oriented 86/BRZ.

I've been boosted since June of this year on a Harrop 1320 TVS SC with the 85mm pulley (12.5-13 psi) on 91 octane with a DT tune. I'm on E85 with Delicious Tuning's Flex Fuel setup now with the same pulley, and I am loving the car. The difference E85 makes on boost is almost as much as the difference between NA and being boosted; it is that good.

I'm pretty aggressive with my driving too; I don't baby the car at all, yet I am not dropping gears from 5th to 2nd, going to 6k rpms while gunning it, or doing hard launches at every light either. Hopefully the engine holds, but I am not worried at this time.

My only safety nets in place are the following (besides the necessaries, DW700cc injectors and DW300c pump): AMSOIL 5w30 Signature Series oil with their oil filter, Forester XT oil regulator/cooler, dual catch cans, and lastly, gauges to monitor pressure and temperature.

@CSGMike is completely accurate. My wife has an 18 WRX with a Cobb Stage 1 Tune, and I have an 18 tS with Full Exhaust, Intake, and Custom Tune. The WRX is quicker, hands down. It pulls harder and the powerband is much thicker. A Cobb Stage 2 WRX running a J Pipe and Intake would even make a larger difference. With that said, when she’s driving it, it’s probably not faster :bonk:

But to be fair, my tS is DEFINITELTY quicker than my Crosstrek Stage 0.

While this thread has put the fear of god into me with my upcoming JRSC C30 install, I’m acquiring all the supporting mods to try and run it as safe as possible and then cross my fingers and hope for the best!

Sorry some of you all have had some terrible experiences, but thanks for sharing so the community continues to learn and grow!

If you stay with the JR or Delicious tune with standard pulley and add an oil cooler, your car will be faster than the STI (91 octane) and as reliable as stock. None of the problems reported here are factory configuration.

I will be running the standard pulley, JR Oil Cooler, JR 4 Bar MAP Sensor, Forge BPV, (potentially) a catch can, w/ a tune from Moto-East.

I have double catch cans. The crank case side does not collect much, if any, oil. There is mild oil accumulation in the PCV side. JR recommends using the softest spring with BPV. Stiffer springs can provide more immediate boost but they may also cause surge on the compressor buy not opening completely. You can check the MAF reading at idle to make sure BPV is opening. The reading should be below 3 g/s after warm up if the BPV is opening. You can hear the whistle of open BPV. Good luck!

Thanks! Planned on using the green spring w/ the BPV. I believe that was what everyone reccomended. Appreciate the heads up on the Catch Cans too!

No I said I was on E85
 

The stage 2 was on the freeway in moderate traffic and I was on e85, driver skill was involved there.

This last one was a dead stock wrx and I was on 91 with a catless header and stage 2 flex fuel tune.

Jaden

Really — “On the freeway in moderate traffic”. Are you 16 and wishing to live in the Fast and the Furious??

Given that you are still “street racing” in traffic and endangering other motorists your opinions are pretty much null and void. There are endless driving events across the nation where you could accurately test your vehicle and your driving skills, as well as benchmark your vehicle against others.

Stop being selfish and take it to track.