Taking off traction control wasn't the issue here as I doubt it would have saved his ass. A driver can still be driving safely with it off.. I don't think I've ever driven my twins with it on and I've never spun out even when I've hooned a bit too excessively on rainy days..

I'd be interested in knowing how fast OP was going to cause the car to jolt uncontrollably midturn especially if he was saying he was getting heckled for reckless driving

Ok well I looked over my original post and I can see it wasn't too clear on how I crashed the car. I didn't spin it, I never have (well other than in empty parking lots in the rain). I was going through a medium corner after I had just turned right out of a parking lot, so I wasn't going fast, about 60km/h at the MOST. But when my dumbass shifted midway through that corner that little clutch kick made the rear end step out, I over corrected it and then when it was starting to catch again I hit that wooden sign with my fender.

I should clarify I didn't go over any curbs or anything, the sign was in the middle of the road, right before a grassy median. It was one of those signs that warn about an upcoming median.

http://www.firstsign.com/Shared/imag...stsign-com.jpg

Here's a curious thought. The reason that temporary sign was there was because someone had gone over the curb and taken out the permanent sign. I came to that conclusion when the paralegal and I were looking at google maps images. If that sign wasn't there I wouldn't have hit anything, I never went into oncoming traffic either, and there was no one on my side of the road.

https://youtu.be/5rXRwT6fjqg?t=100

This blue mustang is the most similar example I found, only I wasn't doing a burnout and I was going around the corner, but the right left and just a little too late correction back to right was basically what happened.

Why do this?

Forgive me if I'm saying things that have already been said, or offering advice that has already been offered. I kind of skimmed through the first 3 pages of the thread so I might be repeating things here.

First of all, being hard on yourself and bashing yourself the way you are in your initial post is not going to help anything. Did you screw up? Yes, without a doubt. Should you not ever do anything like that ever again? Absolutely. But brow-beating yourself and calling yourself names like that speaks to a deeper self-esteem issue. I was like you when I was that age and having that kind of attitude toward yourself, despite what happened, is not healthy. Shit happens, you deal with it, and life goes on. Hopefully, as others have already said, you learn from your mistakes and grow as a person. To err is human, after all.

I, like everyone else in here, was young once too, and did some very stupid shit in motor vehicles. I have had Careless Driving pinned on me THREE times in my relatively short driving career so far, two of which were honestly undeserved, and was just the cop giving me Careless because he really had nothing else to give me (as TCoat mentioned, it's kind of a "blanket" ticket that they use when there's nothing else to charge you with), but one of which was completely and totally my fault.

What I can tell you, is that not a single one of those three charges stuck.

First thing you should do; TALK TO A PARALEGAL!! X-Coppers, Pointts, whatever. One of those places that specializes in traffic tickets. Usually they will offer you a free consultation, and most places won't make you pay unless they successfully get your charges dropped or reduced. Be completely and totally honest with them, and get their opinion on whether you stand a chance to get the charge reduced (I doubt you would be able to have it dropped in your instance, based on what you've shared with us). The fine sucks, but that's the least of your worries. At the very least, you should try to get the charge reduced to at least eliminate some of the demerit points, as that is what will really hurt you in the long run when it comes to insurance.

Two of my charges got knocked down to lesser charges with smaller fines and less points, and one of my charges was dropped completely. So there's really nothing to lose here. If it could potentially save you thousands of dollars in the long run for insurance, the $400 or $500 the paralegal will charge you will be worth it. What they hope for is that most people who receive a Careless charge will simply suck it up and pay the fine, but from what I've experienced, and what I've heard from other people who have experienced the same thing, it's an easy ticket to get reduced unless you were being a complete fucking moron, in which case they probably would have charged you with Dangerous instead.

Give yourself a smack on the head and learn from your mistakes, and get your chin up. Your life is not over, you are NOT the biggest idiot in the world. You are a young person who did something that most young people will do; this is life, and this is how you learn. Welcome to adulthood.

Good luck.

By tie your hands, are you at risk financially? If so, you've obviously got some stuff to figure out, but if you're not at risk financially, I see no reason to get rid of the car, unless you don't plan to keep it.

Stomach the cost if you're not at risk, I think that alone should teach you a lesson, mind you, we each have our own threshold for risk, but you're 18, so you have more than enough time to easily recoup from this.

And seriously, stop calling yourself dumb/idiot/etc, just do better, don't try, DO. The more you keep saying stuff like that, it just begins to sound like a half-ass excuse.

Edit: Do look into a paralegal like most are saying.

Just grab some timbits & icecap & remember don't don't Don't turn off traction control.


oh and don't file for a claim, try to fix it yourself with friends and junk yard parts.. if the car still drives. :/

Alright you're right. I was just being a little hot headed and emotional. I understand a lot of you guys are older and this moving violation doesn't compare to more serious problems many people experience, but this is honestly one of the most difficult things I've dealt with in my short adult life.

But you're right about demeaning myself. I was mad and I also wanted to make it clear how much I was feeling down about it in order to weave out some of the insults and get a little more information and help.

Thanks though.

no no no, the kid doesn't need to be told he can't drive anything ever again... We've all had split seconds of misjudgment and shoudln't be castrated for it I mean.. No one was hurt and he learned his lesson.... Thats all that counts right? right?

And as for you @MaximS stop this. Admitting you are dumb doesn't make you not dumb.

Just fix the problem and stop caring about what ppl think fuck em.

I'm also in the market for a throwaway bumper I can use for track days. Mine took a beating on the last track day.

nvm

Because 80% of the people on this forum will tell you that you are a puzzy that doesn't know how to drive and you should just buy a Corolla if you leave them turned on.

I mean, the limits of the car can be approached without turning off transaction control. So 79% of those people really need to do some learning about these cars. The minute traction control invades you're most definitely over the limits of the car.

WHoever finds the sister thread to this but in the Challenger forums gets a high-five... I'd go look myself but that place sounds scary.

Just go to bodybuildingforums, I bet it's very similar to any "muscle" car forum.

No problem. Have a Corolla already :lol:

Sorry if it's been said already, as I've just quickly skimmed through the thread. But from my understanding, you've been in one accident recently before.

I might be wrong, as I'm not 100% sure, I'm going off of personal experience, but if your first accident went unreported, or was not deemed at fault. You may be able to call your insurance and inquire about "Accident Forgiveness". My insurance company had it and basically, if you get in to an accident and are deemed at fault, from my understanding, they will acknowledge it, but with accident forgiveness, your insurance will not go up.

Now, that being said, the accident is still on your record, and remains there for 3 years, so if you get in to another at fault accident within 3 years, you're pretty fucked.

I was deemed at fault in my accident, age 21. They hit me with Careless iirc. I went to traffic court, got it knocked down to 2 or 3 points and a big fine, and then called my insurance for accident forgiveness

Yeah you fucked up buddy. Best thing you can do is learn from it and be a wiser man because of it.

First mistake turning off the traction control. Don't do this unless your a professional or have years of driving experience.

So what yo should do hmm hard to say since I'm not familiar with how Canada handles this. What I would do is first fight the ticket and go to court, dont expect to win, you wont. However if you can find out what judge you have you can try write him a letter stating how sorry and foolish your actions where etc. Your begging for leancy here pleading the judge to reduce your fine/ punishment etc. If your really nice and the judge is in a good mood then maybe they will take pity on you and lighten the fine and go more easy on you. You my be able to do traffic school to avoid points and insurance increases, unlikely but worth a try. Next is to learn how to properly handle a car and drive like an adult. You want make sure the judge knows your in the miltary, and try and show your sorry.

Now you get to break that lease and give it back to avoid more loss, buy cheap crap car from the 80s that's slow and use that for the next 5 years like most 18 year olds.

Then question your parents for allowing you to own this sort of car at 18 which in itself is irresponsible.

Also you can consult this thread ( one of my favs)
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123703

Well thanks for the tips but my parents didn't even know I owned the car until 2 months into my ownership. I live in a different province and we are not particularly close.

I mean, yeah......

huh? traction control can be quite aggressive and will often kick in way before any "limit" of the car..it certainly won't allow any power slides or drifts around corners with it on. Regardless, TC will never save anyone from very poorly judged hooning, it shouldn't be part of OP's scolding..

If you're sliding you're over the limits, very simple.

This is the third (?) incident in 4 months, not an isolated single one...

i went and looked but had no luck.. can i have a high five for trying at least? lol i dont recommend anyone going there:eyebulge:

So what, Ayrton Senna was known for crashing too.

jks jks in all seriousness tho @MaximS Performance driving lessons are in order.


Do or do not, there is no try.















..just playin you get a thumbs up for venturing into the abyss :thumbsup:

Well tbh I've been only driving for 2 years, and my record was clean until that first speeding ticket (and I'm from Toronto 130km/h in a 100 zone isn't most peoples idea of dangerous driving). After that I was driving from New York and got caught in freezing rain, on stock tires, that was April 15, and I don't blame myself for that (I mean yeah I should have checked the weather that day but ice storm April 15 really?). I literally slowly slid down a hill and bumped a pick up at like 5-10km/h, and there was no damage on his end.

But yeah this was a fuck up no doubt.

Sell car and download uber app?

No one should ever turn the tc off on the streets. 90% of these accident threads start with someone turning off the tc for zero reason. I slide around easily with tc fully on. You have zero clue what could be on the road around that corner. Could be oil like one member found on a road he always drove on and because he turned the tc off he had zero chance and rolled his car. Could be sand or any other substance. Could be a young kid who has no idea how to drive yet turns it off because everyone says they should because it is safe.'

The only thing anyone does when they turn the tc off is make themselves a danger to themselves and everyone around them. And no, I don't need it. I've dailyed a 85 Caddy sedan de ville and I use to love drifting an old Ford v8 conversion fan for the hell of it. I always keep it on because there is no idea what will be around that next turn, and better safe than dead.

..still don't think traction control is the issue here...the issue is decision making on public roads..if someone is trying to hoon like in op's case, TC being on or off ain't going to save him..he took a corner too fast, TC ain't going to correct his speed.. TC's best use case is to save drivers who aren't trying to lose traction. As for what is "safe", I think people can be capable of making calculated risks. I pass a roundabout during my commute and when I don't see any pedestrians or other cars, I sometimes hoon around it...send me to hell :popcorn: I agree, there are clearly limits when doing such things but don't act like everyone is some careless dumbass..

I spun my car at NJMP Lightning turn 1 with the 5 second press. Traction control is not perfect. I've since just do the dpedal dance.

This is my first car with "nannies" besides ABS. The first time I spun it was weird feeling trying to give throttle but it was just cutting power. Felt like the twilight zone. Maybe more advanced systems are better at it but this one seems very basic and overprotective.

On regular street driving I tend to leave it on as I'm not trying to set personal bests getting to work in NY traffic. In sedate driving it doesn't bother me because it doesn't activate I guess

I don't know what my point here is. Maybe it is just don't drive 10/10 on the street and it is possible to spin and/or crash no matter what the state of the nannies.

it is not about being a careless dumbass, it is about the idea that turning tc off is normal. And yes, tc can absolutely help if you go too fast into a corner, that is what it is for. There is nothing wrong with doing it safely like normal people like you and me and others do. Young inexperienced drivers are not capable of making calculated risks, yet are lead to believe tc is useless. That is the real problem.

it is always possible to spin the car even with tc. I'm just saying there is a time and a place, and the track is that. So many of these crashes are because inexperienced drivers turn off tc and behave recklessly. TC might not have saved them, but then again it could have.

I just think the community needs to stress not to turn tc off unless you know how to drive and know what you are doing. Especially since the value of these cars are dropping to where even kids will be able to buy them easily. Our driver training sucks.

The larger issue with inexperienced drivers is a lack of understanding in handling characteristics between FWD and RWD, and how they behave at the limits.
When combined with a lack of respect for the car, it results in mustangs spinning off into crowds of people.

Learning those limits in a safe environment is key, whether it be track or a empty parking lot. It really should be a part of driver training in North America, especially with us who see snow yearly.

Too many opinions on here now. It's like a bunch of old people complaining about kids going on their lawn.

..but it doesn't...if you go 60 MPH around a 30 MPH corner like in OP's case, TC isn't going to do shit..again, TC ain't the issue here, it is entirely bad judgement :thumbdown: plenty of folks here have crashed and spun out with TC on because it is there for people who are trying to have grip and don't want to spin out, not to save you when you're being a clown...hence why Toyota is trying to make shit like auto emergency brake and other safety features standard even on the next Supra >.< if TC was so important and vital then older cars and bikes would be banned for being unsafe without it and car companies wouldn't give drivers the choice to turn it off anytime they wanted...it is called Traction Control after all, not Stupidity Control..

Traction control like all safety systems is essentially math.

The equation still works the following way:

INPUT > PROCESS > OUTPUT

Garbage in > Process > Garbage Out.

If you're going to be stupid, barring the car being automated and then deny you your own autonomy, then it cannot 'save your ass' if you purposely put yourself in danger.

Guys, I'm not a religious person at all, but it seems like the expression God giveth and God taketh away is about as close to perfect as it gets. This accident has really taken a toll on me this last week, I've had trouble sleeping and I've been worrying about what will happen to my insurance rates, and if I'll be able to afford the car. I learned my lesson, believe me.

But today I received news that my transfer has gone through to a different trade in the military! Which means I'll be making over DOUBLE what I make now in the next year!!!! I'm not religious but man today it sure feels like someone is watching over me. Everything's going to be OK after all.

Now just don't screw it up. Take your time, and get formal instruction and everything will be gucci.

Please, please close this thread as I feel for the OP.. The OP can't move on as the post is resurected each time we post something... Most of the posts are telling the poor OP that he fucked up!!

Agree. Some people are also a little too vocal about his mistakes.

Faith in humanity -20.