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-   -   clutch Engagement Issue? (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11266)

stevan 09-28-2012 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bu-Tang (Post 396056)
Mines a little more server, as mentioned in my past posts I have play engaging initially in every gear, the most consistent is 5-6 gear under 3k rpm, you can feel the initial slack in the powertrain before it goes smooth, and also while coasting in gear and re accelerating, you can feel a good amount of slack, as if the main shaft in the tranny is a little loose, but however once it gets over that initial slack everything is fine, and under WOT or heavy load its fine, my dealer has forwarded the issue to Toyota Canada, awaiting response.

If anything what bugs me is it makes it very hard for smooth shifts when driving economically, again I went to the dealer and test drove there demo and I was able to drive it smoothly effortlessly, no matter how I drove and shifted it was smooth and effortless.

The sound I posted in the video no longer bothers me as it exist in every FRS/BRZ ive seen in person, seems to be a very normal thing, anyone share any symptoms I jsut talked about?
there is also a clunk sound when engaging every gear in my car too. Same clunk that you would hear popping it to first.

This and the laggy throttle response are my 2 hates for this car. I also find when I'm shifting there's way too much slack and it gives me the shits because you can't shift smoothly. Does anyone suspect this issue to be due to very soft engine mounts?

In my last car (honda Integra DC5) I had poly mounts and it shifted and had the response of a race car. I just find the response and shift feel in this car to be very below par.

ericmpena 04-01-2014 08:32 PM

Just got my car back from the dealership and now it's clunking pretty loud when I release the clutch. It definitely wasn't making this noise before...at least not this loudly. I guess I can live with it, but honestly it sounds like something is loose. It's not a solid sounding "clunk"...more like a weak/loose clanking sound. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.

Here's a video:
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo_TyeMEYL4"]BRZ Clutch Clanking - YouTube[/ame]

Gords_zenith 04-01-2014 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheelhaus (Post 390920)
Since this only appears to be happening when the engine is idling, what you're hearing most likely requires something to be spinning. To narrow it down, the clutch IS spinning, always, because it's attached to the engine; this is one possibility. When you engage/disengage it from the tranny, the only part it's affecting is the input shaft; the second possibility. Since the gears are helical, when one shaft turns it tries to corkscrew itself forward or backward against the mated gear. Since no gears are engaged in neutral, we may be hearing the near-instantaneous force of acceleration on the input shaft, and the drag caused by the thick tranny oil slowing it down quickly. Considering this car has had extreme efforts put into engineering it's transmission "feel", the noise may simply be a byproduct of the bushings or shifter linkages making a normal action become more audible.

I wouldn't necessarily suspect a throwout bearing I'd expect to feel and hear it pitching a fit with the pedal depressed.

When you move the clutch in/out more slowly (say 2sec in, 2sec out) does it still make the noise?

I 100% agree with this, mine does it too, and only if I release the clutch really fast, but if I feather it than I don't get the clunk. Also, while driving you have feather this clutch because of the delay valve causing it to be jerky otherwise. I have a ford ranger with 4.0 SOHC, 5 spd that does the sound as well. And it has 220000 km on it, mind you it's mazda tranny so it could be something the Japanese do when designing. My $0.02

wheelhaus 04-02-2014 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gords_zenith (Post 1642537)
I 100% agree with this, mine does it too, and only if I release the clutch really fast, but if I feather it than I don't get the clunk. Also, while driving you have feather this clutch because of the delay valve causing it to be jerky otherwise. I have a ford ranger with 4.0 SOHC, 5 spd that does the sound as well. And it has 220000 km on it, mind you it's mazda tranny so it could be something the Japanese do when designing. My $0.02

I did some more experimentation, and I'm certain it's the input shaft making the noise (or the oil drag on the input shaft causing the gears to make the noise). Either way, it's not a problem.

Here's a few repeatable tests for anyone interested in verifying this for themselves. If you understand how a transmission works, it makes a million times more sense.

Test 1: Clutch in and immediately back out- the input shaft doesn't have any time to slow down, so when the clutch re-engages, the input shaft (and clutch disk) are already spinning, so you hear no noise aside from clutch movement.

Test 2: Clutch in and wait 5-10 sec- input shaft slows to a stop
Clutch out- clutch disk engages and the input shaft jerks into rotation with the engine and you hear a faint clunk.

Test 3: Clutch in and wait 5-10 sec- input shaft slows to a stop
Clutch out gently (feather engagement) the clutch disk and input shaft are brought up to speed slowly, and you should hear nothing because there's no sudden acceleration on the input shaft.

Test 3- repeat Test 1 and 2 and 3 with the engine off and parked. You will hear no clunk, because nothing is spinning.

ericmpena 04-02-2014 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheelhaus (Post 1643056)
I did some more experimentation, and I'm certain it's the input shaft making the noise (or the oil drag on the input shaft causing the gears to make the noise). Either way, it's not a problem.

Here's a few repeatable tests for anyone interested in verifying this for themselves. If you understand how a transmission works, it makes a million times more sense.

Test 1: Clutch in and immediately back out- the input shaft doesn't have any time to slow down, so when the clutch re-engages, the input shaft (and clutch disk) are already spinning, so you hear no noise aside from clutch movement.

Test 2: Clutch in and wait 5-10 sec- input shaft slows to a stop
Clutch out- clutch disk engages and the input shaft jerks into rotation with the engine and you hear a faint clunk.

Test 3: Clutch in and wait 5-10 sec- input shaft slows to a stop
Clutch out gently (feather engagement) the clutch disk and input shaft are brought up to speed slowly, and you should hear nothing because there's no sudden acceleration on the input shaft.

Test 3- repeat Test 1 and 2 and 3 with the engine off and parked. You will hear no clunk, because nothing is spinning.


I agree that I have no clunking when the engine is off, however I still hear a clunk when I do a feather release.

tintumz22 04-02-2014 02:42 AM

clutch Engagement Issue?
 
I've had this for 25k miles now. When car got check before, the mechanic says it could be the clutch plate. They just told me to monitor it. I just lived with it up until then. So far everything is fine. Hopefully it will be gone after the time it will be change.


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Paiser 04-06-2014 04:22 AM

I noticed in the video that the idle was high, to me that meant that you just started it up from either cold conditions or where you live is generally is cold or its the first start of the day for your car. Any ways that sound is definitely not normal, and as a mechanic you should know that its not a normal sound, and clutch does not engage with a clunk sound like that in the video that was posted. What it actually sounds like is that the clutch was not bolted in properly and take it back to the dealer and tell them re-torque the clutch bolts and the fly-wheel bolts, because thats what it really sounds like LOOSE FLY-WHEEL or CLUTCH or BOTH

Paiser 04-06-2014 04:30 AM

I'm going to post again because my first reply was first initial feed on the video and not going over everyone else's post, and what it sounds like is that this is a 2013 FR-S problem. Luckily I bought a 2014 Monogram and know its a 2014 model and not re-badged 2013 to 2014 because its a monogram so its more likely that I won't see 2013 issue. The point of this is that my 2014 does not make that sound bud
For me I'm noticing 2014 problem that might be engaging gears sometime is an issue because I think either I'm not pushing the clutch enough in so I grind my gears or the transmission fluid is low because of cold weather conditions so the condensity of the fluid is more compact in colder weather.

GhostGo 04-16-2014 11:37 PM

what if I have a slight clunk when engine's off....

wheelhaus 04-17-2014 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostGo (Post 1678125)
what if I have a slight clunk when engine's off....

You might just be hearing the clutch movement. You're still separating the plates when you depress the pedal, even though the engine is not running.

Another clunk has been found to be caused by the clutch pedal hinge brackets inside the cabin against the firewall. It's apparently more of a slight "pop" sound.

FT86Hypnotic 11-16-2015 02:10 PM

I know this is reopening a thread from a while ago but I am having this issue after changing some of the suspension bushings in the car. If changing the fluid is recommended what have you guys ran in order to help out with reducing the noise and was there anything actually figured out as to what causes this issue? Should i just buy a new clutch and flywheel?

Jehuty77 11-16-2015 03:27 PM

My car makes the same noise as this video here

https://youtu.be/UMwnf0QeIS0

They just called me to inform me they believe its the clutch springs and the solution is to replace the entire clutch assembly. I'm not entirely sure their correct considering how many different people have this issue with differing causes, what i've read mostly indicates throw out bearing.

When i asked them if its covered under warranty, they informed me clutch is a "wear" item.

Did anyone who has had this issue get it fixed?

humfrz 11-16-2015 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jehuty77 (Post 2453097)
My car makes the same noise as this video here

https://youtu.be/UMwnf0QeIS0

They just called me to inform me they believe its the clutch springs and the solution is to replace the entire clutch assembly. I'm not entirely sure their correct considering how many different people have this issue with differing causes, what i've read mostly indicates throw out bearing.

When i asked them if its covered under warranty, they informed me clutch is a "wear" item.

Did anyone who has had this issue get it fixed?

Could be as simple as lubricating the clutch fork.


humfrz - has a simple solution for most things and it's usually wrong ..... :sigh:

Ultramaroon 11-16-2015 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jehuty77 (Post 2453097)
My car makes the same noise as this video here

https://youtu.be/UMwnf0QeIS0

They just called me to inform me they believe its the clutch springs and the solution is to replace the entire clutch assembly. I'm not entirely sure their correct considering how many different people have this issue with differing causes, what i've read mostly indicates throw out bearing.

When i asked them if its covered under warranty, they informed me clutch is a "wear" item.

Did anyone who has had this issue get it fixed?

I've read of a few instances of the clutch disc grenading allegedly because of manufacturing defects; specifically, improperly installed/failed rivets. If yours sounds as loud as the vid, yeah, get it looked at before it fails catastrophically.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
edit: I'm changing my tune on listening to the clip more carefully. I'll also admit to not reading the whole thread. @wheelhaus was on point. Normal operation.

slyphen 11-16-2015 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewie4299 (Post 307659)
There's a noticeable clunk when putting the tranny in 1st or 2nd at low speeds/stopped. It's been commented on before as simply the momentum of a moving part coming to a sudden stop. I'm not sure of the terms or specific parts as I'm actually not very knowledgeable about how transmissions work but after reading the explanation I was able to visualize what was occurring. It causes not damage and I'm not worried about it. As a matter of fact I actually find it somewhat reassuring to hear/feel the gear engage.

This may not be what you are experiencing. I don't think I've felt or heard this when the vehicle is really moving.

i have that clunk too. if you make sure you hold the clutch down for like 2 seconds before putting it in gear, there won't be any clunks.

TheeMajesticEagle 10-18-2016 02:51 PM

Digging up an old thread but does anyone know what the culprit of this is? Just got a 13 brz and it clunks everytime I let the clutch pedal out, regardless if I hold it in for 10 seconds or so

Ultramaroon 10-18-2016 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheeMajesticEagle (Post 2777687)
Digging up an old thread but does anyone know what the culprit of this is? Just got a 13 brz and it clunks everytime I let the clutch pedal out, regardless if I hold it in for 10 seconds or so

Welcome! Actually, looking back at that clip, I'm changing my opinion. Normal.

Are you doing the same thing, dumping the clutch in neutral? Nothing wrong with doing that but yeah, it's going to clunk.

TheeMajesticEagle 10-18-2016 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon (Post 2777709)
Welcome! Actually, looking back at that clip, I'm changing my opinion. Normal.

Are you doing the same thing, dumping the clutch in neutral? Nothing wrong with doing that but yeah, it's going to clunk.

Thanks! Loving the car other than worrying about the transmission. I made an appointment to have the dealer look at it Thursday just to be sure

wheelhaus 10-20-2016 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheeMajesticEagle (Post 2777687)
Digging up an old thread but does anyone know what the culprit of this is? Just got a 13 brz and it clunks everytime I let the clutch pedal out, regardless if I hold it in for 10 seconds or so

Need to be more specific on the circumstances. Is the car running? In gear or neutral? Are you coasting, stopped, or accelerating from a stop? There's lots of moving parts, so knowing exactly when the sound is happening would help to describe what you might be hearing.

TheeMajesticEagle 10-20-2016 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheelhaus (Post 2779365)
Need to be more specific on the circumstances. Is the car running? In gear or neutral? Are you coasting, stopped, or accelerating from a stop? There's lots of moving parts, so knowing exactly when the sound is happening would help to describe what you might be hearing.

The clunk is only when the car is running, wether I'm moving or not. It seems to happen in every gear including neutral

Viselord 11-19-2016 12:40 PM

Any resolution on this? I'm having the same issue. Dealer recommended replacing the clutch assembly. Not sure if that's the issue or something else.

MurderousPandas 11-19-2016 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viselord (Post 2800036)
Any resolution on this? I'm having the same issue. Dealer recommended replacing the clutch assembly. Not sure if that's the issue or something else.

It's normal afaik.
When you let go of the clutch pedal, there is a connection being made. Have you ever set a book onto a table and notice that it makes a sound when the two meet? Unless you let it go slowly, it will make a sound.
My opinion: if the dealer is giving you a free clutch, take it. Otherwise, unless there is a performance problem or a very odd and noticeable noise, such as a rod, don't worry. You bought a sportscar, and sportscars make sounds.

"Chasing speed with patience"

wheelhaus 11-19-2016 09:07 PM

This just goes out to all owners patanoid about clutch and drivetrain noises...

If you're letting the clutch out rather quickly, especially at low speed or low rpm, you might just be hearing the clutch plates clap against the disk, or the gears clack as they're suddenly loaded, or the diff clunk slightly from a sudden load. All of the gear teeth meshing together have a very slight gap, called "backlash" that provides the tiniest amount of free movement and prevents the teeth from creating excessive friction. If you've ever built a RC car, setting gear mesh with a piece of paper squished between the pinion and spur are the common way of creating this gap; loading the gears back and forth by hand will make a typical subtle clacking noise.

A lot of mechanical sounds are perfectly normal, this is not a luxury car. Its nearly impossible to diagnose a mechanical sound over the internet with a billion interpretations of what it might be. In all likelyhood you've noticed a normal sound and are getting paranoid. "No other car I've owned has ever made this noise" probably because you just didn't notice it.

If a noise sounds awful, or abnormally loud, or really out of place, then please take a video with clear sound. A garage is a terrible place for recording because the mic picks up every echo, please do it outside and repeat the noise as often as possible to help us identify it.

MurderousPandas 11-19-2016 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheelhaus (Post 2800228)
This just goes out to all owners patanoid about clutch and drivetrain noises...

If you're letting the clutch out rather quickly, especially at low speed or low rpm, you might just be hearing the clutch plates clap against the disk, or the gears clack as they're suddenly loaded, or the diff clunk slightly from a sudden load. All of the gear teeth meshing together have a very slight gap, called "backlash" that provides the tiniest amount of free movement and prevents the teeth from creating excessive friction. If you've ever built a RC car, setting gear mesh with a piece of paper squished between the pinion and spur are the common way of creating this gap; loading the gears back and forth by hand will make a typical subtle clacking noise.

A lot of mechanical sounds are perfectly normal, this is not a luxury car. Its nearly impossible to diagnose a mechanical sound over the internet with a billion interpretations of what it might be. In all likelyhood you've noticed a normal sound and are getting paranoid. "No other car I've owned has ever made this noise" probably because you just didn't notice it.

If a noise sounds awful, or abnormally loud, or really out of place, then please take a video with clear sound. A garage is a terrible place for recording because the mic picks up every echo, please do it outside and repeat the noise as often as possible to help us identify it.

Exactly where i was going, but recording sounds is tough to do with our cars and those damn crickets, even worse if you have an exhaust. My TOB has been going bad for 3 months or so, but i can't get the sound on video.
The voices in my head keep telling me "today is the day", but it doesn't seem to want to die.

"Chasing speed with patience"

Hadalet 02-19-2017 05:03 AM

Wow. It's amazing how almost nobody understood what the op was asking for. Even when he would reiterate exactly what the problem was, people derailed the topic with what they assumed was what he was asking. There was slop in the drive train. In every gear. Not a noise, but slop. Making it difficult to shift properly. Not a noise, but slop... You might be wondering why I've got my panties in a wad over this. I've had the exact same problem since I purchased my car in 12'. It FEELS just like the u-joint on a two piece drive shaft is failing (a problem I had on a Chevy luv once). That's not what's happening now, but it feels exactly the same. I had two dealers tell me it was normal in 13' and just took their word for it. Ive been driving stick for 26 years and never had a car this difficult to shift smoothly. I just read every post in this thread thinking there was an answer to what causes it, but instead got an answer to a question that wasn't asked. Does anyone have a definitive answer to what the hell this is? Questioning reality at this point...


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gravitylover 02-19-2017 09:59 AM

^^ Heh, I had a LUV too (27 years ago) and the clunk sound this car makes is very similar to what that little truck did. It's not a U joint failing but I'm pretty sure it's everything catching up and "landing" as the shaft and rear end are spinning at different rates. Did that make sense? If you go under the car when it's on a lift and either spin a rear wheel or the driveshaft you'll hear and feel the clunk. I've had a few vehicles that make a similar noise and decided a long time ago not to worry about it.

You've been driving stick for 26 years? Newb :cheers:

MurderousPandas 02-19-2017 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hadalet (Post 2855934)
Wow. It's amazing how almost nobody understood what the op was asking for. Even when he would reiterate exactly what the problem was, people derailed the topic with what they assumed was what he was asking. There was slop in the drive train. In every gear. Not a noise, but slop. Making it difficult to shift properly. Not a noise, but slop... You might be wondering why I've got my panties in a wad over this. I've had the exact same problem since I purchased my car in 12'. It FEELS just like the u-joint on a two piece drive shaft is failing (a problem I had on a Chevy luv once). That's not what's happening now, but it feels exactly the same. I had two dealers tell me it was normal in 13' and just took their word for it. Ive been driving stick for 26 years and never had a car this difficult to shift smoothly. I just read every post in this thread thinking there was an answer to what causes it, but instead got an answer to a question that wasn't asked. Does anyone have a definitive answer to what the hell this is? Questioning reality at this point...


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Driving stick for 26 years my arse, you couldn't even answer his question. Why don't you be a douche elsewhere, at least everyone here was brainstorming ideas rather than being a ****.

"Chasing speed with patience"

Hadalet 02-19-2017 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MurderousPandas (Post 2855986)
Driving stick for 26 years my arse, you couldn't even answer his question. Why don't you be a douche elsewhere, at least everyone here was brainstorming ideas rather than being a ****.

"Chasing speed with patience"

Lol thank you for missing and making my point! :p But I get your point and I apologize for being douchy.

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Ultramaroon 02-19-2017 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hadalet (Post 2856023)
Lol thank you for missing and making my point! :p But I get your point and I apologize for being douchy.

Haha... I didn't smell any vinegar at all. These things have a lot of drivetrain lash, mushy mounts, and zero sound deadening. Clunk is life.

I'll go back and re-read the OP now. :D


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