Prius

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I think so. It's all good though, because 99.9999% of the people out there probably couldn't give a flying hoot. Although it might make a nice conversation piece, especially people unfamiliar cars, they'll be like "Oh shit man, I didn't know Toyota's made something like this."

BTW this forum rocks! People actually respond quickly here unlike some of the other forums I visit. Also, what is this "Thank you" shenanigan's I keep seeing and how do I do it?

I would try for $19.5k. Depending on your APR and if you don't drive much maybe leasing a 2016 would be a good choice since you get full warantee. Since you're from Michigan like myself insurance is crazy on the FRS and almost $2000 per year for me. The BRZ my insurance was quoted like $1600. No idea why.

In my experience it doesn't really matter if someone is paying in cash or credit but you will be simplifying the purchasing process a million times over. The dealer, salesman and the finance manager get kickbacks from the banks for a finder's fee so they actually make more money from you financing through them (just FYI.)

If you're going all cash then try to bring some ammo with you and be reasonable and logical. Bring in the KBB on a car that is the trade in on the vehicle and say "This is probably what you guys paid for it." Then add in some detail moneys and fees (Good detail is about $250 - $300 and some other random fees for title transfers and such) then ask them to meet you halfway so that they can make a little bit of money and you get to save a little bit of money too. High volume dealers care more about moving vehicles rather than making lots of money on each one. Be honest and straightforward with your salesperson and ask them if they prefer to move a lot of cars every month on 'mini-deals'. Mini-deals are the minimum commissions they can possibly make on a car sale and usually equate, depending on dealership policies which vary, to $50 a vehicle up to $200 a vehicle.

Also print out a sheet for private party buy and some examples of how much people are selling them private party. Explain to them that you could just as easily purchase a car from a private party and detail it yourself to meet the same quality as the one they're offering and that you'll probably be getting more for your money. The only thing that they can possibly say to justify the pricing difference then is if it's a CPO (Certified Pre-Owned) which comes with a very great extended warranty. CPO warranties typically add between $1k and $1500 on top of the price. But also remember most factory warranties are transferable and if you plan on hardcore modifying your car then a warranty is probably the least of your worries.

Use all of these points in your arguments and stand by your points of views. If they counter-act with dumb arguments such as "Well, we gotta keep the lights on." Then you counter with "Well, what about keeping my lights on at home?" Worst case scenario: You buy the car after a couple hours of negotiation saving you a couple hundred dollars. Best case scenario: You buy the car after a few minutes of negotiation saving you close to a thousand dollars.

Remember that their sales tactic is 'ABC: Always Be Closing'. What that means is that they are always closing down outs and arguments that you might have about paying a certain number. You can play this game with them as well and you have evidence (If you printed these papers and prepared arguments and brought them with you) to support what you say and by using logical arguments you shut down their reasons for charging you more.

Good luck! Hoped this helps!

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This was very helpful indeed, I have now printed off the KBB and the Black Book prices. Excuse me for my ignorance but what is "detail" money. I have never heard of this term before.

You're buying a Subaru at the end of the day.

Most car dealers would prefer you financing it through their bank cause they get a kick back. And then you can just pay of that loan that same month. I would just leave the cash vs. loan up to the dealer to see if you could get a little extra off the car (either way).

I bought my '13 with 25k miles for just about $19k. But I think the price was also low due to the previous owner doing tasteless mods so a lot of average car buyers didn't want to hassle changing them. At the time the next cheapest Twin was $23k.

I can agree with the guy above too about buying at a luxury car dealership. I bought mine which was a trade in at a Land Rover dealer. These guys are still sales people but they have an extreme customer service skills due to dealing with high end customers all the time.

If anything I'd think it's a little high priced given the mileage but it looks well taken care of so it's probably a fair price.

If anything it's lower based on region, there simply doesn't seem to be the same level of demand in the North and Middle of the country states like there is in the fair weather and more mountainous areas were there are plenty of twisty roads to take advantage of. Every once in awhile I'll see someone who can't unload a car for less than $18k that doesn't seem to have any consequential issues.

In the end if you walk away with a smile on your face doesn't matter what anyone else says, $21k for this car in 9/10 condition (-1 because someone else farted in the seat before you) is probably not something you'll regret.

Personally, I'd check out the tires and see how they've worn, any car can get dolled up but if it's still got the original tires you'll be able to tell how the previous owner drove it (front torn up at the track, rear worn down drifting, pristine from driving calmly as the salesman will ALWAYS claim or replaced already).

tip 1: don't look like as if you really want the car. act cool :party0030:

tip 2: when they ask what price range that you want to be in, dont tell em.

tip 3: intimidate them. mean mug em :mad0260:

tip 4: dont buy into that " thats the lowest i can go" pressure em

tip 5: dont work with the total price, work with the monthly payments. for
example: if the car payment is at 450 @ 5 years term. talk them down to 350 or lower. Most used dealership will do what it takes to make a sale.

tip 6: make sure that you don't get screwed over by the interest, If youre getting a great price for the car but youre paying it at %29.999 interest youre losing a lot of money in the long run. which goes back to tip 5. DONT negotiate the over price negotiate the monthly payments!! Since your monthly payment usually includes the interest.

tip 7: bring paper, pencil, and a calculator. MATH IS YOUR BEST FRIEND

tip 8: do a hundred mile search and compare the prices and mileage of each car. if you find a cheaper car, youll might be able to save even more!!!

tip 9: if you have transportation, you might be able to find a much better deal at within 200miles.

tip 10: Salesmen are only there for your money, they arent helping you at all. :bow: Haggle is your best friend. ask them to throw in some free goodies if they wont bring the price down. i got a free Volkswagen t-shirt, keychain, mug and a emergency kit after haggle the price down to an amazing deal.

Goodluck and best wishes! Don't rush if you feel like that you can do better with the price or that you can find a better deal. :popcorn:

Dont do this. If the price is right and the interest and terms are right the payments will be right.
Cause they can get you $350 monthly but you are paying for something like 8 years and still over paying for the car. Salesman always say "what payments were you looking at?" and "what if we can lower the payments by $xxx a month?"
The only way to have a lower payment is.. 1. lower the price of the car (which doesn't change the payments a lot unless its a huge drop in price / downpayment) 2. lower the interest rate. 3. increase the payment term (more years). So haggling over the payments is the assbackwards way to negotiate the price of a car.

You should look at the price and the interest outside that its just simple math to come up with payment cost. You first work on the cars price (if you want to haggle) and then you see what interest you're getting. If the price is fair and your interest rate/terms is good.. your payment will be good.

EDIT: The monthly payment is really the least important part of buying a car. Its the easy way to trick people into buying cars which is why dealers use it in negotiating. "we can get you driving out of here at only $325 a month" but they arent telling you the length of the loan or interest rate.

I have a 2013 Frs for sale if ya want to drive down to NC ;)

I'd make damn sure I knew about what other mods have been done to that car. I'd be highly suspicious of the previous owner after seeing the "T" on that car. Do they have maintenance records for the car? I'd have the dealer check for a tune as well.