Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB - Turbocharged FA20 targeted for 270hp. Confirmed for next gen WRX

- Engine, Exhaust, Transmission (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8)

- - Turbocharged FA20 targeted for 270hp. Confirmed for next gen WRX (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2752)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deejaytnk (Post 93699)

In the US, all racers and auto enthusiasts are sooo power hungry that it is an addiction. Why wouldn't the BRZ STI have a turbo? On top of that, adding a turbo would enhance sales in the US along with the fact they will make more sale numbers here than anywhere else in the world, because the average middle class man can afford such a car. US road system calls for turbo in race cars, all street tuners love the 10 sec boost runs once in a while head to head with a worthy opponent when cruising on the highway.

We don't drift/race down twisty mountainous roads like the Japanese or Europeans where less weight and dynamic suspension are required. Like how there are always split markets to satisfy different sides of the globe, Turbo in North America and maybe Non-turbo everywhere else in the world. I highly doubt that, US always get the end of the stick, if turbo here in US, turbo will be everywhere. Like how European always get all the models thar are desired here like the A3 hatch, VW Sirocco, and all Type-Rs.

:word:Not just for the bolded but for the entire post. It aggravates me how even our domestic brands held out on us until recently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranzformer (Post 93706)

You aren't condoning street racing now are you?

Of course not, he obviously meant from the on-ramp to highway speed :thumbsup:.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tree fingers (Post 93688)

Assuming that the EJ25 and this new motor are both swappable, with similar difficulty, into the BRZ, why would anyone choose the smaller displacement motor? Is DI that advantageous?

Its not the DI thats the biggest advantage, DI helps bring down C02 emissions considerably and helps with finer fuel consumption. Which helps bring down cost because they company doesn't have to pay big taxes and the consumer doesn't have to pay big emissions tax.

But for performance the real magic is the new Subaru engines are really worlds apart from the old EJ engines... They claim that the engine alone can make more power, better economy, better emissions, in a smaller engine per CC vs their older EJ brother. a EJ207(STI) vs FA205(WRX) the FA will be much better equipped, more efficient and at a lower manufacturing cost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deejaytnk (Post 93699)

In the US, all racers and auto enthusiasts are sooo power hungry that it is an addiction. Why wouldn't the BRZ STI have a turbo? On top of that, adding a turbo would enhance sales in the US along with the fact they will make more sale numbers here than anywhere else in the world, because the average middle class man can afford such a car. US road system calls for turbo in race cars, all street tuners love the 10 sec boost runs once in a while head to head with a worthy opponent when cruising on the highway.

We don't drift/race down twisty mountainous roads like the Japanese or Europeans where less weight and dynamic suspension are required. Like how there are always split markets to satisfy different sides of the globe, Turbo in North America and maybe Non-turbo everywhere else in the world. I highly doubt that, US always get the end of the stick, if turbo here in US, turbo will be everywhere. Like how European always get all the models thar are desired here like the A3 hatch, VW Sirocco, and all Type-Rs.

So true! Split market is tough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z_Rocks (Post 93701)

I wonder if 270 is for WRX, how much WRX/STI will get?

at the LA autoshow, Subaru said that WRX STI was to get the same 2L engine from the new WRX but be +300hp.

Funny how NASIOC responded to this.."subaru why you no make 400hp"

Well, i thought the engine for the next gen wrx will be a 1.6l turbocharged?

Since the headers run under the engine and the engine sits so low on the BRZ/86, fitting a turbo+piping down there would be next to impossible without risking it hitting the pavement every time you hit a small bump. In the WRX the engine sits much higher up, which will give enough room for that stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WingsofWar (Post 93721)

at the LA autoshow, Subaru said that WRX STI was to get the same 2L engine from the new WRX but be +300hp.

Funny how NASIOC responded to this.."subaru why you no make 400hp"

Excellent Sir, thanks for the confirmation. I guess STI is the one I'll wait for. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by no_name (Post 93745)

There is just one header/exhaust manifold..

Quote:

Originally Posted by deejaytnk (Post 93699)

In the US, all racers and auto enthusiasts are sooo power hungry that it is an addiction. Why wouldn't the BRZ STI have a turbo? On top of that, adding a turbo would enhance sales in the US along with the fact they will make more sale numbers here than anywhere else in the world, because the average middle class man can afford such a car. US road system calls for turbo in race cars, all street tuners love the 10 sec boost runs once in a while head to head with a worthy opponent when cruising on the highway.

We don't drift/race down twisty mountainous roads like the Japanese or Europeans where less weight and dynamic suspension are required. Like how there are always split markets to satisfy different sides of the globe, Turbo in North America and maybe Non-turbo everywhere else in the world. I highly doubt that, US always get the end of the stick, if turbo here in US, turbo will be everywhere. Like how European always get all the models thar are desired here like the A3 hatch, VW Sirocco, and all Type-Rs.

Whilst the US is a fairly high volume market it isn't as high as you think. Europe is a larger market than the US in most cases. Also the US market is a low sale price market with very low margins, the GT86 will cost ~$31-32k in Europe before taxes the FR-S will be more like $25k. This is why the European specs are usually higher as US customers would rather buy a 25k base car than a 30k high spec car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z_Rocks (Post 93751)

Excellent Sir, thanks for the confirmation. I guess STI is the one I'll wait for. ;)

Yup, same here:thumbsup:
Now the question is, when, not if, Toyota will own up to their own higher performance version, likely SC.

I agree with the notion that the STI model will just be a tad lighter without an increase in power. Plus, in order to even make a turbo possible in this chassis, they'll have to move the engine further up or just in a different position for it to even fit. A lighter STI would make A LOT more sense. This car doesn't need a huge boost in power, just some further weight loss. Hell, even the Lotus Elise with only 189hp N/A can run with the best of them at the track.

Or just do what Lotus did with the Exige and drop in a supercharger. Much easier to accomplish with the current configuration and will keep a lot of whiners happy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tree fingers (Post 93688)

Assuming that the EJ25 and this new motor are both swappable, with similar difficulty, into the BRZ, why would anyone choose the smaller displacement motor? Is DI that advantageous?

In California it would be a lot easier to pass inspection. Swapping a motor from newer car into an older car is CARB legal if you include all of the newer car's emissions control stuff. Swapping an older motor into a newer car is a no-no. So Cali folks could swap in a turbo motor, and be making 270+ without having to worry about the fuzz.

According to Autoblog locating a turbo is physically not possible?

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/05/2...-drive-review/

Quote:

The engine is an all-new design called the FA, with a perfectly square stroke of 86x86 and a variable-valve control system that Subaru calls AVCS, for active valve control system. The FA was developed for and only used in this car, "at least for the time being." On the required premium gas, Subaru's numbers are 200 horsepower and 150 pound-feet, with reps at a loss to explain why Toyota rates the same engine – that Subaru builds – at 197 horsepower. The FA is smaller than the Impreza's FB engine, achieved with items such as a shorter and lower intake manifold, a shallower bottom on the transmission, and revised, more compact lubrication system. Subaru then placed components in different places to get the engine further back in its bay, like making the intake manifold front-facing and placing the crankshaft 60 mm lower. The induction system was shorted to reduce overhangs, and the radiator was tilted 17 degrees to improve the center of gravity. Compared to the Impreza, the BRZ's engine is placed 120 mm lower and 240 mm further back.

And that's why there's no turbo, and no plans to include one – the engine occupies the space where Subaru would normally bolt one on. They moved so many things around, we don't know why they couldn't have been just as creative with some forced induction, but the company's traditional placement of the intercooler atop the engine simply wouldn't have worked. Subaru plans a longer life-cycle for the car, six to seven years instead of four to five, and it was strongly hinted that we would see a power bump during a mid-cycle refresh – but not a turbocharged bump. We were told as well, though, that this engine will be the base of Subaru's next-generation turbocharged engine.

regardless if it was in the project plan or not.. I cannot wait 3-4yrs for one.