I asked it just to see, but you'd be surprised...

I've been to a ton of meets with different forums...

Oh the things I've seen... You'd be surprised... I know people twice my age that makes me go WTF sometimes, or when I finally meet the people that started certain famous threads my jaw just drops...

Then I find out their profession and it just drops even further lol...

Some of the most mature forum members are 18-24 year olds that work for every penny and totally don't take anything for granted... Most of the trouble makers in my old truck forum were I would say 28 - 40

People seem to mix up trolls and honest discussion in here. Usually it's by people who are no better than outright trolls, these people are the blind brand/car fanboys, which are plentiful here. Yeah, it hurts that people don't think your car of hype/choice can't cruise on water, get over it. People have different opinions. My worst observations have been people who put down some well written explanations to their disappointment just to be flamed by some fanboys.

Two sides to every fence.

I really think I couldn't be much happier with how the FRS turned out. I almost feel like the bitching and moaning is a good thing. It suggests that non-enthusiasts will be turned off by this car, and only those that really believe in the design principles of this car will buy it. That and 17 year old girls. ;)

I also think when people actually SEE the car in person some of those doubts will subside.

Some people simply want a nice, fun to drive car in the vein of the original AE86 that they don't need to modify to enjoy. Not everyone wants to void their warranty the day after they purchase a brand new car. If that means they spend $5000 more on the sticker price but get all the doodads that they want, then they should offer such options. I don't see why the "purists" are mad at people who just want a well optioned (without going overboard), sporty, daily driver.

I'm happy you're happy, but don't think for a moment that it's "non-enthusiasts" complaining about this stuff, as enthusiasts will actually be the ones to more so to follow up on the car and get info online in these days. Actually, I think that this car will actually sell more to "non-enthusiast window shoppers" on looks alone than actual enthusiasts.

:thumbup:

Initially I admit I was bitter because the car lost what the JDM 86 had (and I'm one of the ones who isn't as price focused as many-I'm expecting to spend 25-27 on the car). When that didn't happen I wasn't happy about it. However, if they offer the same as options then the fact that the base car is.. well base doesn't really mean much.

The problem is, we don't know if those options will exist. If they don't then we are basically being forced to go to Subaru IF we want those options without modifying the car.

I will modify the BRZ/FRS if I buy one, I just don't want to have to do so immediately to get what I want as the base platform.

As I said though, if those items are offered as options than Scion hasn't lost me as a potential buyer yet.. it'll come down to pricing. I know those reports of the FR-S being 30k are based on a cracksmoker.. but if they aren't.. well..

I generally consider myself an enthusiast. I've been on track in 30 degree weather. I would have loved seat heaters on those days. I've autocrossed in 24 degree weather and drove an hour to the autocross site and it was 18 degrees when I left.. yep, would have loved the seat heaters there too. The HIDs are a requirement of mine as well. The seats, well maybe the regular seats will be fine but I suspect that I'll prefer the alacantara seats.

If those things really make me a non-enthusiast then I guess I'm not one. :shrug:

This is exactly the point I was trying to get across in my criminally neglected thread a little while ago. Here's what I said:

Unlike some enthusiast forums, I don't think this one has a dedicated Toyota/Scion dealer who is trying to keep everyone up-to-date, correct me if I'm wrong. So, I'm hoping some of the people who were at the FR-S unveiling last night could clear a few things up.

I understand that what we see in the official Scion literature is still a "pre-production" model, however the concerns I (and I think a few others) have are legitimate and are holding me back from putting down a deposit.

Do we know whether or not there will be a "high-spec" version offered by Scion? If not, will things that are offered on the Toyota 86 be offered as options for the Scion? HID headlights? Push-button start? Upgraded seats? If these are all boxes I can check on the order form, then great, where do I sign? If not, and the difference in cost between the Scion and the Subaru is ~$3000-4000 (based on the loose info we have), then the only option for a "high-spec" 86 of any kind in the USA is the BRZ, correct?

I'm sure that when the car comes out and I get one it will be great, but in the 6 months until it comes out (in the UK) we have to talk about something!

I think things will work out well having both Toyota and Subaru selling the car as hopefully it will give bit of choice.

As far as I know there is no dealer/manufacturer presence here with any real knowledge. There are a few that pretend yet will never name a source.

I think a lot of this will be cleared up at NAIAS. Both Scion and Subaru stated that the US spec would have their official/public debut there. I'm *hoping* that will include things like pricing, brochures, availability date, etc. I coach a hockey team with a service writer at the best performance Subaru dealer in the area so I'll check to see if they've heard anything when I see him on saturday. I'm hoping he'll be able to sneak a brochure away once they get them if it's before NAIAS so I can see it :)

For the same reason as you, I'm not putting a deposit down on either at the moment because I'm still unsure which I want. I was waiting to put down a deposit on the information that I was hoping would be released at TMS originally..

I agree with Clamp, nothing wrong with having the car with options.

Also, brand loyalty and your view/expectations on what the car should be vs other people, it's a matter of opinion. I don't think it's wrong that people got let down a bit considering how good the Toyota 86 launch was and all the options that were available vs the north american launch. It's not wrong to question a manufacturer on their decisions, it helps build a better end product.

If the whiners want to REALLY be constructive, they should be notifying or messaging someone within toyota to try and push for change. This car was made possible by feedback from enthusiast, so who knows? Maybe they'll listen?

True people should expect that the Scion version of the car should be cheaper, but people put expectations on this car to be special in a sense that maybe for once the north american counterpart wouldn't get screwed on options like we always have. (at least the important bits are the same though, engine, chassis, suspension)

I've been watching all the threads so far from yesterday and yeah there are some definite trolls and there was lots of bitching, but even still, they're a few valid points within the sea of trolls in whining.

Another thing is that while some of us like to track/auto-x/drift our cars. This car is getting a recognized and hyped global release to a car that has cult status following. So the demograph of buyers is going to be all across the board so be prepared for comments like what was seen yesterday.

Either that or start a new hardcore FBR86Z community just for motorsport enthusiasts.

I agree. Right now I'm currently looking for my first NEW car that I want to be fun and performs well and looks as a bonus. I may not be gutting it out and going full race but I'd still like to take it to the track once and awhile and just have fun with it. I'm going to have this as my daily driver so I'd like to have those options just so when I go out I have amenities of a good looking nice car or else I'd just keep driving what I have because it's about on par with the interior with the Fr-S. I really hope they do have options I think many people are jumping the gun a bit I mean they haven't even announced price yet and people started complaining. If the Fr-S doesn't satisfy my needs I'll gladly go by the BRZ because its my first new car and I want it the way I want it but at the same time I'm not going to bash the Fr-S because that is also what many wanted just a base that has no fancy tie ins. The way I see it BRZ=High Spec, Fr-S=Low spec