What do you do for a living that makes you such a hero? What do you get paid for it?? Are you greedy because you want to get paid what the market says you are worth?

technically true. the market clearing price for a kilowatt of electricity in texas to heat a house after the snowstorms last year could technically have been a few thousand dollars per kw/hr, the market clearing price for a gallon of gas in new orleans before katrina hit could have been $50 per gallon, the market clearing price for someone to buy a chevy spark today might be $40k for certain individuals who can afford it or those who literally have no other option. all of this is true.

but lets not pretend that the sellers that care more about current market clearing price instead of the longer term relationship that businesses have with the communuties they serve arent short sighted and greedy. cause those communities who are forced in the moment to accept that kinda stuff will gladly see amd help those sellers close down the moment that market forces arent at their backs.

you absolutely cant have it both ways.

MSRP PLUS fees. No one volunteering real OTD(out the door) numbers. I paid $30,800ish for my 2022 Premuim(base model) BRZ OTD. That number includes fees, tax, & title. I'm happy with it.

Already bought 6 new Infinity KAPPA/Reference speakers, ST rear sway bar & Racer-X endlinks, Swift Spec-R springs & a set of Tein Struts/shocks and likely have less in it than I would have for a Limited version.

That's a great deal! I paid 32k OTD on my 2013 brand new.

OTD will be closer to 40k around my area on the new 86 based on what I've seen. My friend's buddy bit and bought one at 35k. Yikes :bonk:

All very interesting- especially when you want to talk about government regulated industries like electricity. But why not answer the question at hand - is there something wrong, in your opinion, with a dealer having fixed costs, VERY limited inventory/ability to obtain stock due to the current circumstances, selling a car for above msrp to willing buyers who are willing to pay it?? Conversely, were you the “greedy” party when you paid less than msrp because market forces, at that time, compelled the dealer to sell it to you at that price??

I am consistent - I don’t have a problem with either situation and I don’t assign any kind of pejorative term or moral value to any of the parties involved.

oh were in full agreement that any capitalist business can choose to do anything they want within the law, its just that the smart ones who want to be in business 5, 10, 20 years later dont do dumb shit like fleece all their customers, especially when you are a geographically constrained business like a car dealer. the bhsinesses who only care abiut getting their libertarian on will find that they have no customers left to sell to soon enough.

also, again, yes, its greedy to do all that. you would never want to live in this hypothetical world youve constructed- if the clerk took a look at you at the store and charged you triple for your items cause you look like you could pay it, then the guy behind you would get charged half on his cause the clerk liked the way he looked better than you. but thats okay cause thats what the market bears in that moment, right?

I don't understand why people care what other people pay in general. Would you really walk away from a deal because someone 1,700 miles from you got theirs at MSRP?

The stress of finding the best deal will put you in an early grave. Buy the car already and just enjoy it. Then come back to the forum and complain your HomeLink doesn't work.

For me its less about being fair, and more about what the car is worth to me.

I refuse to pay markup for anything except probably a Porsche GT car. And even then i have my limits. Thats largley because i find most cars are just not worth the extra money tacked onto them. If a dealership is marking a 30k car up by 7k, well then now i have to compare it to other 40kish cars. And when you go up that much, 40k cars start to look better.

Like i'm NOT paying 40k for a GR86, thats used Cayman territory which i s arguably a better sports car, thats also new Supra 2.0 territory. The whole selling point of this car is that is an affordable RWD sports car. 40k no longer makes it "affordable".

That being said we(girlfriend and I) are picking up a new GR86 STD trim in AT (its her car) for MSRP + a few dealer added options. OTD price is 32k

Though I understand your theory a bit, I'm not sure I see your logic. You're saying you won't pay 40K for a GR86 because it's in another territory of better and pricier sports cars. But... those better and pricier sports cars are out of their own price territory and shooting for the next territory so to speak. So you could take a step back and say, well now I want a civic SI. But that's now creeping up to GR86 MSRP territory... So what exactly is your thought process then?

I don't even understand the theory. Obviously when you are choosing what car to buy (or pretty much anything for that matter), you ALWAYS need to factor in what you are paying vs. what you are getting. There are very few things where price vs. value isn't a consideration.

No problem with it. Obviously if it was based upon me being a member of a protected class, it would be illegal. But if it's not, and that's how they want to run their business - it's fine by me. Probably won't go there.

And, yes, I realize that's what you are saying about the dealerships - they shouldn't charge more than MSRP because, in the long run, it may be bad for the business. You might be right - but you might not. I have no problem with them making that decision. And I certainly assign no "moral" pejorative - like greed - to that decision. When you choose to buy a product at one store that is marked below the tag price - i.e. MSRP - why aren't you the one being "greedy?"

Well thats why i wont pay over MSRP and i havnt this entire pandemic (bought a M2 Competition, A91 Supra, Veloster N and now this GR86). Its about not paying marked up costs for a car that isnt worth that much.

Sure 1-2k. ok fine i get it. But when a 30k car is now selling for 40k, well the car just isnt worth 40k for me. If i want a Civic SI? Well i'm not paying GR86 pricing for it.

And honestly its not that hard getting the pricing you want. And if anything GR86 was the easiest to get at MSRP. The hardest was the Veloster N and that only required about a weeks worth of negotiating and playing a bit dirty.


I probably didnt really explain my thought process as well as i thought i did. but basically it boils down to, do you think you're getting enough car for the money you are paying. I wont pay 40k for a GR86 because its just not enough car for the money i'm spending. I also wont pay 70k for a used M2 Competition because there are just better sports cars out there for the same money.


As long as dealers are willing to sell at MSRP theres really no reason at all to pay a bunch of markup. If 100% of dealers were marking up and that was just the new cost of ownership, well thats different and you dont really have a choice. But right now there is a choice. In northern California alone there are 7ish or so dealerships that are willing to sell the GR86 at MSRP without any need for negotiating.

I don't have the final numbers yet, but the local dealership here is doing a blanket $3000 upcharge on all cars, and $5000 on all trucks.

A dealership 90 miles to the north is doing MSRP, and happened to get delivery of the exact car I want. Even considering that city has 2% higher taxes than mine, and I "have" to drive an excellent car 90 miles back home, that's the clear winner. It's right around $33k for a Premium Automatic before taxes and whatnot.

Bonus? My local dealership actually tried to sell me that same car (they were going to trade for it to get it here) for their additional $3000 markup.

(I would do stick normally, but the wife needs to love the car too and she doesn't like driving manuals.)

Anyone trying to buy in Europe? All the replies above are quoting USD.