Hah, glad I could help. People say that removing it leads to wear on the throw out bearing/clutch because the pedal no longer locks all the way up. I don't know how true that is but I have had mine out of there for like 40k miles.

This problem was solved a little while back by Ultramaroon. A lot of people have reported really good results from swapping the clutch slave cylinder for a narrower bore.

Check out his guide here
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77390

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They allow MT's in SF?
There's not too many places I would prefer an AT, but SF is one of them.

I'm not missing out on anything or need to be filled in on anything, you have no idea what I've driven. :cheers:

As far as BRZ and FRS having the same clutch system components... they do.

Riding your clutch on hills is rookie driving. That explains a lot when you talk about not being able to figure out the driving on hills / curbing your wheels.

The DBW system in this car is the closest thing to a cable throttle body I've encountered in DBW systems.

I've noticed that the throttle response is better when I switch from 91 octane to 93+ (FYI I always use non-oxygenated fuels). In particular, when downshifting and rev matching the throttle is just "right there" with higher octane fuels.

Hey dagle! Glad you found the place. PW is Random Thoughts over here.

I've had to drive my sister up Spring street from the waterfront to the top of Capitol Hill for the last few months.
Giant hill and always get stuck at lights along the way. It's a matter of getting used to the car more than anything else.

I usually don't mess with the modes, as I like the fuel mileage and have not gone down the mod rabbit hole.
The 2K has lots of torque, but it's all up at the top of the rev range.
If you compare, note that the 86 has a huge torque bump down low that you can take advantage of on city hills.

I've been more than happy with mine, but I don't swap out vehicles often.

Definitely check out the DIY. Lots of stuff has been accumulated.

you seem to be mad about something or have a point to prove, are you ok man? no need to get defensive if you haven't driven purpose-built cars with better DBW systems lol. if you have and still think the FRS/BRZ system is the bee's knees that's OK i guess.

the comparison of FRS/BRZ was to the simpler slave designs from the cars of the 90's and 00's not to each other. some very fast SF-based drivers ride their clutch because it's the most convenient way to drive in the city, most of us would just spend the couple hours replacing the clutch when the time comes because riding the clutch saves us the occasional embarassment of slipping the clutch and missing (sometimes i'll be driving a lady around and i want to pretend like i know what i'm doing).

lastly, no knock on you or the cars you've driven but how could you think the FRS/BRZ's DBW system is the closest thing to cable while claiming (or at least alluding to) that you've driven much better machines? Anything AEM infinity, Motec, Haltech is better by a mile is it not? :burnrubber:

hmm ill try that, i think my shop has a few cans of 120+ octane VP stuff laying around from a recent track day. :thumbsup:

will do! i think from this thread i'll end up knocking that clutch assist spring off and seeing what options are available with reflashing for throttle response. I may simply end up with rigging up sport mode on engine start (with a delay as mentioned) and manage my MPGs with RPMs for now. For the amount of driving I do, fuel mileage is not the biggest deal. My other car gets about 15MPG at best on the freeway and probably right around 1MPG if I open up so the FRS has amazing fuel economy in comparison

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned but there is no Sport mode on a MT and the AT Sport mode is just for changes in the gearbox. There's no setting that changes throttle response on this car as standard.

interdasting, it certainly feels different but that may be only my impressions taking off from a stop. is there a definitive source or side-by-side test comparing VSC Sport mode vs. normal in a straight line?

You can change the throttle mapping and response in the tune. Or you can buy a pedal commander thats plug n play in 2 minutes to do the same.

What are your ltft / stft?
the throttle unless right after a ecu reset/reflash is generally considered pretty good for DBW and praised by many. Possibly you have a vacuum and or exhaust leak causing this “delay” feeling.

You were the one starting off talking about trying to fill me in on sporty cars, lol.

I've only driven in San Francisco a few times, but riding your clutch was always hammered in to be something you dont do. Just drive the car.

I guess I should have made a caveat for factory DBW systems, the one in this car is pretty good. As for standalones that is very dependent on setup and tuning.

Please elaborate on all these purpose built DBW standalone cars that you're driving and then comparing to your stock frs.

I've got an uphill gravel U-bend driveway.
I use a short tap VSC (vehicle stability control) to go up and around it.
It turns itself off over 30mph.
If I don't do that, the inner wheel hops more and makes bigger divots in the gravel.

VSC button on mode reduces amount of automatic electronic brake stability wierdness.
If you've encountered this turning from a steep street around a corner I can see where this would put you off a bit.

I wish the electronic shenanigans could be shut off, but you can't buy new cars without them anymore.

Had to drive a new Carola a while ago. The automatic depart the f'n road steering assist scared the crap out of me.
Glad they didn't put that in the twins.

it's 100% stock with a relatively recent (not recent in my book, but others may think so) ECU reset about 400 miles ago (1.5 gas tanks). I'll check on the vacuum in the intake system. I don't think there are any vacuum leaks, but all of the resonator/deadspace volume might be contributing to it. I also think that idle is a bit low (it's reading ~600RPM on the tach). Not sure where to find ltft/stft on the stock ECU, is that available somewhere? As far as exhaust leak, it might be hanging up on the lack of backpressure but I severely doubt it on an engine this size lol..



Right, not everyone has had the opportunity to drive a bunch of different sporty cars. If you have, that's great. I've driven most iterations of most sporty cars that have come out in the last decade and also a bunch of swapped race cars, exotics, etc. If you think the DBW system and pedal feel of the FRS/BRZ is the same or better than that of a modern enthusiast's sports car, that's totally OK, I simply disagree.

you're free to drive however you'd like in your car, I'll drive the way that I do... It's really not that big of a deal to me to ride the clutch. If it is to you and you're concerned with the replacement intervals or costs, that's totally fine and understandable. you've driven a few times in SF, i've driven here for more than a decade on most of the hills. if i found a better way to navigate the hills reliably, i would have done it. i haven't found anything yet, but i'm more than open to it if you have a better approach.

as far as DBW, as a factory system it's comparable in my opinion to the Chevy Cruze and Kia Optima. Better ones in my view are the C7 and C8 corvettes, the later 08-09 s2000's, and even the BMW M cars but that's my opinion on the matter.

I mentioned standalones because you stated that the DBW system in the FRS/BRZ is the closest thing you've gotten to cable. I offered to you that I've driven a number of racecars and swapped cars with full standalone systems because they are far better in terms of feel and adjustability (and to me, indistinguishable to cable). I was making the point that if indeed the FRS was the best DBW system you've ever experienced, you clearly didn't have any experience with fast DBW cars. That's all.