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- Engine, Exhaust, Transmission (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8)

- - JDL 4-1 dyno results (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135847)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilkyWitness (Post 3238544)

Oh wait is it? The original JDL 4-1 and not the recently JDL 4-2-1 EL header? The other thread mike claims its the 4-2-1 http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...130248&page=17 maybe a typo?

Yeah he mentions the mistake in the bottom of the first post here. Its the 4-1 from a while back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz (Post 3238600)

Yeah he mentions the mistake in the bottom of the first post here. Its the 4-1 from a while back.

And so the ace header mystique lives on....almost

Really interested to see a direct comparison like this on the NEW 4-2-1 Jdl offering.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Summerwolf (Post 3238660)

Really interested to see a direct comparison like this on the NEW 4-2-1 Jdl offering.

This

Quote:

Originally Posted by Summerwolf (Post 3238660)

Really interested to see a direct comparison like this on the NEW 4-2-1 Jdl offering.

Bump to see if CSG has been able to get around to it yet!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Summerwolf (Post 3238660)

Really interested to see a direct comparison like this on the NEW 4-2-1 Jdl offering.

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2subaru (Post 3238665)

This

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBezugs (Post 3267806)

Bump to see if CSG has been able to get around to it yet!

The JDL 4-2-1 was dyno tested a while back against their latest UEL.

https://i.imgur.com/pIbr84q.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike (Post 3238072)

Ace A350 header vs JDL 4-to-1. Green = stock, Orange = Ace A350, Blue = JDL 4-to-1. All dynos on ACN91.

https://i.imgur.com/7VnPcO1.png

The "dip" on the Ace header in this graph is an anomaly. Here's a full set of Ace dynos to verify.

https://i.imgur.com/KbWbXvO.png

The JDL 4-1 completely obliterates the torque dip. Long story short, the JDL makes the same peak area under the curve as the Ace from 6500-7400, which is important if you're shifting at redline and want maximum acceleration. If you want maximum bang for your buck for top end power, go with the JDL 4-1.

The A350 has a vastly larger midrange powerband, yielding larger overall gains area under the curve, but comes at a premium price. If you want the best powerband available NA, go with the Ace A350.

Both headers are engine limited up top, rather than flow limited.

For FI results with a supercharger, see this thread, that compares a Ace A350 vs Gruppe-S header, both on a JRSC + HBP + Ethanol. The Gruppe-S header is on a straight E85 tune, whereas the Ace A350 is on a Flex tune with E70. Straight E85 tunes will always make more power than a Flex tune. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=5027

CSG has packages available for both the JDL 4-1 and Ace A350 4-2-1 headers that include tunes.

*edit*

Been informed this is the 4-1 header. Post corrected.

When this was done, was it all done on the same day and same car?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Same dyno, not same day (weather is compensated for), and not same car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ (Post 3276621)

The JDL 4-2-1 was dyno tested a while back against their latest UEL.

https://i.imgur.com/pIbr84q.jpg

That's not a direct comparison of the JDL 4-2-1 against the ACE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Summerwolf (Post 3276890)

That's not a direct comparison of the JDL 4-2-1 against the ACE.

By "their" he meant JDL's previous iteration. I don't get why the comparison is on different cars tjhough, how hard is it to dyno on the same day and swap the headers out on the same test car?

If car & header is customer's, that paid for dyno time .. yes, it might be hard to convince him to pay double own money for header (that's not his) installment & dyno time. Customers may also dislike having their bought ware to first be installed on other car.

That aside, on same dyno imho it might be good enough for rough comparison imho

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e (Post 3276901)

By "their" he meant JDL's previous iteration. I don't get why the comparison is on different cars tjhough, how hard is it to dyno on the same day and swap the headers out on the same test car?

It seems like a lot of people do not realize what this JDL offering is at all.

I think just a decent comparison of similar modded cars, tuned for the headers, would be a decent enough comparison in my mind. Not overlaying a jdl uel or el against the ace. The actual right 4-2-1 jdl header.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilkyWitness (Post 3238143)

Finally some data I've been waiting for. It's good to see the JDL 4-2-1 against the ACE and a stock tune. I have a set of the JDL 4-2-1's with a black coating sitting behind me in my room waiting for me to put them on. They still seem to be pretty awesome and its great to see that it destroys the torque dip! Just sucks that the gains aren't as good as I hoped for. Makes me wonder if I shoulda busted the extra $500 for the ace headers. :s honestly seems similar to a cheap UEL set up...but like almost twice the price for the jdl's. RIP

Maybe I am confused, but it looks like the Ace 4-2 header and 2-1 overpipe is $1700, and the JDL 4-2-1 header and "1-1" overripe is $1500. The JDL 4-2-1 header is $1200. It seems like $200 is worth the difference.

I think it is worth it to describe these headers better. The Ace is not a 4-2-1 header. As I said above, it is a 4-2 header, which works with their 2-1 overpipes, and that overpipe varies, such that the 150/250/350 progressively adds more length to the two pipes before they merge.

https://dqzrr9k4bjpzk.cloudfront.net...1031667476.jpg

The JDL header is maximizing the runner length as much as it can for the limits of a 4-2-1 header by merging to a single exit at the last possible inch. (Estimated from the pictures) The JDL header merges about 4-6 inches sooner than the Ace 150, which merges about 4-6 inches sooner than the 250, which merges about 4-6 inches sooner than the 350. Also, the Ace header has 4 pipes for three-quarters or more of its length, where the JDL has 4 pipes for about one-half its length.

https://counterspacegarage.r.worldss...dl-421el-2.jpg

https://dqzrr9k4bjpzk.cloudfront.net...1031667406.jpg
https://dqzrr9k4bjpzk.cloudfront.net...1031667411.jpg
https://dqzrr9k4bjpzk.cloudfront.net...1031667416.jpg

My guess is that we could plot the differences on a dyno between the 150/250/350 and extrapolate that the JDL would be equivalent to a 50 in the lineup, such that JDL50/Ace150/Ace250/Ace350 would follow like so. With that said, if your setup was ideal for the 150 over say the 350 then the JDL setup could also be ideal, but if the 350 was already better than the 150 than the 350 will be even that much more better than the JDL.

Extrapolating from this post:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=185

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceHeader-MT (Post 2344276)

350= max torque (202.4NM), lowest peak HP (175.1HP)
250= torque (approx 200NM), HP (approx 178)
150= lowest torque (approx 195NM), HP (approx 182)

These numbers are approximated off percentages of the 350 when we did a stock dyno run with OEM frontpipe

It could be hypothesized that the JDL 4-2-1 header might offer slightly higher peak horsepower, while offering less torque. What would be nice would be a dyno overlay of the 150 vs 250 vs 350 to really see where the plots shift, and it wouldn't be a stretch to infer that the JDL header might shift the plot over just one more spot, likely towards the top of the rpm range and potentially at the detriment of low end torque--if I was speculating.