for a twin scroll you need to merge cylinders firing opposite of each other so I believe you would need to join cylinders on the opposite side of the engine. Not ideal but definitely not impossible.

these manifolds are definitely more expensive than what would be required for a single scroll but that price could probably dramatically reduced by mass production. Right now they are really only available for racing applications because no one else is really interested.

Subaru is going to have to go down this road at some time or another to continue to reduce engine sizes to meet cafe standards. Either that or they get that electric turbo they patented into production. Either way I don't care as the end result for us would be the same....minimal turbo lag and smooth torque.

Conversely, you could grab a JDM EJ207 header and re-engineer (read: weld shit) it in the fashion required for this application.

I am surprised you are shock. I always mention my distaste for it and always mentioned that I like the idea of a FA25 engine instead.:D

uhh..... There are a good number of near-to 300hp sportscars for 26k, on the market... so... not sure what you point is?

The Z is over due for a complete re-make. It is no longer performance/price competitive in the market, and if you go look at Nissan's Z sales it shows..

First of all... that is not how a free market works. Do I care that the Won is stonger to the Yen? No.

Do I care that Subaru sells more WRX's than Scion will sell FR-S? No.

The market is the market. All products in the market compete freely against each other. That is why is is called the free market.

None of those factors justify why I the customer should buy a lot less car for my 25k. If you go to the pricing thread (think it is "when price will be announced" someone made a really nice list of cars that will come in below the FR-S / BRZ 25k price point. You should go read it...

Exactly my point. The base FR-S @25k is about 5k too much.... There is NOTHING in the FR-S that justifies that kind of price.. Again.. the TC likely costs more money produce than the FRS, and they should be priced about the same.

Funny.. .if you have made them a few times, then surely this is not the first time you have been wrong.. you think you would of learned by now. Point blank, at 25k+ the car is overpriced in the US Market.

Well maybe you should care about the strength of the yen because it isn't exactly a secret that the Japanese economy is in terrible shape and the constant strengthening of the yen against the US dollar in recent years has dealt a huge blow to their export market. If you think it's overpriced then don't buy it. Toyota isn't pricing it based on what you want to pay. They are pricing it at what they have to to stay in business.

So you think the US BRZ is overpriced? Where I live the BRZ I priced out came to over $38,000 USD. The base BRZ (the trim level the US will not recieve) with steel wheels, no LSD, no climate control, etc. is over 26k USD. Even the Toyota 86 GT is over 35k USD. And the kicker is you can't even buy one because every single 2013 model is already sold.

You are making ridiculous comparisons without even an elementary understanding of economics. If you think you can get everything this car offers and more from a Korean car or an econobox then go buy one. I however think it is apparent from the sales in Japan and the enthusiasm of the members of this very forum that there are plenty of people out there who realize a car is more than the sum of all of its parts, and its value cannot simply be summarized by a list of features.

I was surprised that it even made 200BHP! With the mid $25k range we've heard about for the last couple of years, if they make a STI version it's going to be well over $30k without a turbo or higher output engine. Plus all of the advertising is pushing the driving aspect while downplaying the lack of HP. Sure signs of no prospect for a power increase. I don't expect any different from Subaru on the matter either.

My point is if you start debating more HP and this car, you've lost any credibility to me. Comparing the FT86 to midsize sedans it just asinine.

Now aftermarket/modifying is a completely different story. Even I might add a turbo/supercharger someday. But I know better than to expect one from the factory at this point and after they went through all the work to build a highoutput N/A version for a very low volume car.

Isn't that what we call fanboys? Seems like the perfect definition. I love the idea of this car as much as anyone. But I'm not gonna buy it if it is over priced. Let the fanboys buy it. Better options available at that point.

Depends... I'm not really considering buying any cars right now other than the BRZ/FR-S, so I'm not concerned with how it is priced compared to other cars out there. The only reason I would not buy a BRZ/FR-S at this point is if they price it over what I can afford, but I don't really see that happening. What better option would you go to if the BRZ/FR-S is overpriced? Personally no cars on sale today <30k appeal to me, but the BRZ is exactly what I want.

Not sure that's accurate, the new Camry SE, has close to that list and you can get the 4 Cyl. for $26K. It also has a navigation system with Entune for accessing the web. Add the things it doesn't, HID and the leather alcantera inserts and you'd still be under $30K.

Go buy a Camry then. :iono:

Rember no car is perfect and each has it's draw backs; too little hp, too expensive, too small, high maintance costs, too heavy, lack of aftermarket support...etc. I have a few ideas going on in the back of my head as other options. If you are locked into the BRZ, good for you. I'm not at the moment.

I wouldn't say I'm locked in. If the BRZ is more than I can afford I'll just keep driving my WRX until either the BRZ becomes more affordable or something better comes along. I'm just saying at this point there's nothing comparable on the market. All I want is RWD, non huge, affordable car. The Miata is close but I hate convertibles, so BRZ/FR-S is it for me.

Since those are your requirements, I agree there really ins't much else for you to look at. At this point my requirements really aren't that narrow.

The Z had a complete remake in 2009. Not sure how that could be considered "overdue". We won't be seeing a new Z until 2015. There is a mid-cycle refresh coming this spring as a 2013 MY.

Before the economy tanked, Z sales were doing OK. A car like that is never going to continue it's initial sales volume because initial demand is what drives vehicles of this type.

You still haven't provided a single reason why the tC costs more to produce than the FRS. Everything about that car is cheaper than this model. Engine, suspension, interior, etc.

What you are saying makes no sense. Of course the advertising for the current model is centered around what the car does best. I've never seen any company center an ad campaign about a cars weaknesses. Besides that, the current advertising campaign has absolutely nothing to do with what will be offered in the future.

I don't think anyone is comparing the overall car to mid-size sedans only that the acceleration figures are on par with some of them. Obviously the FRS/BRZ will handle far better than those cars and offer a better driving experience, but that doesn't negate that those acceleration figures are slightly disappointing for a sports car.

They also went through all the work to make that same engine a high output FI one too. It has been confirmed by Subaru that a FA20 with a turbo will power the next WRX so maybe your expectations aren't well founded.

You would be darn close to 30k. This car isn't 30k either. My point in that original statement was that the car isn't over priced for what you are getting. There may be other vehicles that offer the same features at a very similar price point, but you aren't going to find any that offer those features at $25k which is what someone else was saying a limited BRZ should be priced at.