Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB
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Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
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keen as 10-17-2015 07:44 AM
Yes, I also found out that you can't copy a US ROM to Australian. There are probably undefined tables in the Australian ROM.

I am VERY DISAPPOINTED that Shiv and Openflash tablet are not supporting Aussies for an ESC tune. Over the past 3 months I have already asked Shiv 9 times on the ft86club private messages and 4 times on the direct email. Shiv replied once at the end of July on ft86club and stated he would help. However, it hasn't happened.

THIS IS VERY BAD SUPPORT.

While I'm whinging, I get this fail safe after 5 or 6 pulls, totalling around 45secs
--------------24.X – 28.X volts. Throttle switch activated but no boost. Thermal motor control protection. * Resets in 2-10 seconds *let unit recharge and cool.-------------

Anyone else get this so easily? Has anyone put cooling on the electric motor?

KoolBRZ 10-17-2015 10:31 AM
It's Open Source, that's why
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keen as (Post 2422741)
Yes, I also found out that you can't copy a US ROM to Australian. There are probably undefined tables in the Australian ROM.

I am VERY DISAPPOINTED that Shiv and Openflash tablet are not supporting Aussies for an ESC tune. Over the past 3 months I have already asked Shiv 9 times on the ft86club private messages and 4 times on the direct email. Shiv replied once at the end of July on ft86club and stated he would help. However, it hasn't happened.

THIS IS VERY BAD SUPPORT.

While I'm whinging, I get this fail safe after 5 or 6 pulls, totalling around 45secs
--------------24.X – 28.X volts. Throttle switch activated but no boost. Thermal motor control protection. * Resets in 2-10 seconds *let unit recharge and cool.-------------

Anyone else get this so easily? Has anyone put cooling on the electric motor?
Has anyone asked @Wayno if he'd like to try making an OFT ESC tune for Australian AT's and MT's? If he says yes, ship your ESC to him and wait. The other option is to open a similar tune in RR and type your changes by hand into each table.
The overheating issue isn't the motor, it's the controller. Duct in some cold air from the front, with a computer fan supplying air when you're not moving. What CAL ID is your ECU? While you're working on the over-heating issue I can work on your tune.

keen as 10-18-2015 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolBRZ (Post 2422784)
Has anyone asked @Wayno if he'd like to try making an OFT tune for Australian AT's and MT's? If he says yes, ship your ESC to him and wait. The other option is to open a similar tune in RR and type your changes by hand into each table.
The overheating issue isn't the motor, it's the controller. Duct in some cold air from the front, with a computer fan supplying air when you're not moving. What CAL ID is your ECU? While you're working on the over-heating issue I can work on your tune.

Thanks for your suggestions and offer of help.


At this stage I am not going to ask Wayno because I want to try a local person that has experience with FI and OFT.


my ROM etc http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=395


I think if you make me a tune file, it will also have problems due to some tables in the Aussie ROMs not defined.


Also my symptoms match the thermal motor control protection and I get ZERO boost for a few seconds until it resets.


This is different to Thermal battery de-rate (controller protection). "Boost can be use but is slightly reduced. *Resets 5-20mins depending on engine bay temps."

DAEMANO 10-18-2015 09:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolBRZ (Post 2422554)
Attached is a new tune for the A01C ECU's. I started with @Wayno's definition file for A01C, then used it to open OFT's latest ESC 91 Octane A01C tune in RomRaider. Then I opened my latest A00D Ultimate tune and compared the A01C image to the A00D image. Then I copied the differences from A00D to A01C. Here is the product of my efforts. Use at your own risk.

I've learned that there are some ECU coding differences that can't just be copied over when trying to copy from a US ECU to a foreign ECU, so I'm going to be avoiding that. Since you're in the US, I have obliged. There were a few tables that I left uncopied, since they didn't translate well. This is also an AT copied to a MT tune. Try this tune with the ESC turned off first. If it runs all right then stop and turn it on. Let it idle for at least 30 seconds after you turn the ESC back on. Monitor your Engine Load, LTFT, and STFT. It should show between .40 and .60 load at cruising speed. LTFT and STFT should be under 5 plus or minus. I actually tried a MT requested torque B table, instead of an AT, and it ran really boring. Let me know if this tune is exciting or boring.
Still emptying the e85 from my tank. Will put this in as soon as I can

KoolBRZ 10-18-2015 11:10 PM
Your ROM is defined, By wayno
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keen as (Post 2423706)
Thanks for your suggestions and offer of help.


At this stage I am not going to ask Wayno because I want to try a local person that has experience with FI and OFT.


my ROM etc http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=395


I think if you make me a tune file, it will also have problems due to some tables in the Aussie ROMs not defined.


Also my symptoms match the thermal motor control protection and I get ZERO boost for a few seconds until it resets.


This is different to Thermal battery de-rate (controller protection). "Boost can be use but is slightly reduced. *Resets 5-20mins depending on engine bay temps."
@Wayno has a definition file for your ROM, so your Australian tables will be defined. The trick is to copy the changes from an American ESC tune. I think that by comparing the OFT OTS stage 2 B01C tune to the OFT ESC stage 2 B01C tune, record which tables are changed, then change the same tables manually, cell-by-cell in your A01G ROM defined by @Wayno's definition file. RR shows "No missing tables" between OFT's ESC tune and OFT's OTS tune, so I should be able to make you a 98 Octane tune, but not an E85 tune. Do you want me to give it a try?

jackblack21 10-19-2015 03:06 PM
Hey guys the listed 0-60 times on the front page are around 6.5 sec. Isn't that the same number this car will do stock?

keen as 10-19-2015 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolBRZ (Post 2423843)
@Wayno has a definition file for your ROM, so your Australian tables will be defined. The trick is to copy the changes from an American ESC tune. I think that by comparing the OFT OTS stage 2 B01C tune to the OFT ESC stage 2 B01C tune, record which tables are changed, then change the same tables manually, cell-by-cell in your A01G ROM defined by @Wayno's definition file. RR shows "No missing tables" between OFT's ESC tune and OFT's OTS tune, so I should be able to make you a 98 Octane tune, but not an E85 tune. Do you want me to give it a try?

Yes, sure. I'd appreciate your effort if you want to try.
That all sounds good.

DAEMANO 10-19-2015 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackblack21 (Post 2424595)
Hey guys the listed 0-60 times on the front page are around 6.5 sec. Isn't that the same number this car will do stock?
The stock manual's I've seen in car magazines run ~6.1-6.7 while stock automatics are ~7.1 - 7.6 seconds.

In the owner's thread, the only timed (verifiable) cars have all been automatic transmissions in the mid sixes 6.4 and 6.46 with the fastest being nlowell at 5.9 seconds.

A manual with OFT tune (raised rev limit, and flat-foot shifting) should be ~0.7-1.0 seconds quicker, but only people with verifiable 0-60 runs have posted.

My car (233 whp/207 wtq) should be running very low 5's with some clutch/tire abuse, but I've never taken it to a dragstrip or timed it with an accurate performance measuring device to validate. Smartphone apps are not accurate. I can say this much, there are more than a few GTi's, base boxster/caymans, FiST/FoST, Abarth's, 3 Series, various 2.0T Audis, and a handful of 260+ bhp sedans that could confirm it. No, I won't be posting vids of those :)

jackblack21 10-19-2015 05:41 PM
Thanks Daemano! Did not realise those were AT times. Pretty impressive. I run an AT(yea yea I know), so maybe I would be interested in this setup.

KoolBRZ 10-20-2015 01:21 AM
Check your messages, you have a present waiting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keen as (Post 2424704)
Yes, sure. I'd appreciate your effort if you want to try.
That all sounds good.
Just finished it. Sent you a PM with a link to the ESC tune for A01G ECU's. I'll wait for your feedback before I post it for everyone else.
:burnrubber:

KoolBRZ 10-21-2015 12:34 PM
I will post tunes for MT's as well as AT's tonight. This is Open-Source development, and in the spirit of that, I don't charge for my work. There is a transitory lean condition at full throttle, between 2-3000 rpm's, that I would like to fix, and I could use your help. @steve99 has an excellent thread on tips and MAF scaling here http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74754 . @Wayno has an excellent thread here, http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94822 .
I would like to compare the MAF sensor scaling of several different CAL ID's submitted by people who have used my tune and then rescaled their MAF table to eliminate this lean condition. Then I could average out these changes and add them to all of the tunes I have available. Everyone would benefit from your MAF rescaling work. In the spirit of developing these better tunes, I will be working on MT and AT tunes, from the US and abroad, and for the time being, for ESC owners only. If you are an ESC owner, and want to work together rescaling your MAF sensor scaling for all of us to benefit from, respond with your CAL ID so I can make sure I have a tune for you.

keen as 10-21-2015 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolBRZ (Post 2427046)
I will post tunes for MT's as well as AT's tonight. This is Open-Source development, and in the spirit of that, I don't charge for my work. There is a transitory lean condition at full throttle, between 2-3000 rpm's, that I would like to fix, and I could use your help. @steve99 has an excellent thread on tips and MAF scaling here http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74754 . @Wayno has an excellent thread here, http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94822 .
I would like to compare the MAF sensor scaling of several different CAL ID's submitted by people who have used my tune and then rescaled their MAF table to eliminate this lean condition. Then I could average out these changes and add them to all of the tunes I have available. Everyone would benefit from your MAF rescaling work. In the spirit of developing these better tunes, I will be working on MT and AT tunes, from the US and abroad, and for the time being, for ESC owners only. If you are an ESC owner, and want to work together rescaling your MAF sensor scaling for all of us to benefit from, respond with your CAL ID so I can make sure I have a tune for you.

Thanks for the tune. I will try and rescale MAF.

tzbang 10-21-2015 08:48 PM
I've been reading all this information on the ESC. Although I scoffed at first.. the evidence is quite compelling.

I'm pretty keen to get my place on the list but it seems that there is some issue surrounding RHD vehicles? (I can't fathom why this would matter?) And also, that there is tuning problems associated with some countries ECU's? (I'm in New Zealand).

keen as 10-21-2015 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzbang (Post 2427617)
I've been reading all this information on the ESC. Although I scoffed at first.. the evidence is quite compelling.

I'm pretty keen to get my place on the list but it seems that there is some issue surrounding RHD vehicles? (I can't fathom why this would matter?) And also, that there is tuning problems associated with some countries ECU's? (I'm in New Zealand).

I have a unit I bought second hand from USA. We have battery on the other side. A longer "dump" cable was needed. This is the huge cable with connector. This is important due to the high current it carries. Another set of normal thickness power cables are also required and are easy to make a long connection to the battery. For the throttle switch, I reversed the folds on the mounting bracket to make it fit RHD. If using the procede, then the throttle switch is not required.


Apart from supply/demand, there may be other reasons the unit is not made for RHD.


In Nth America, most users have the tune supplied by OFT.
To my frustration after many request, OFT is not supporting other ROMs.


Thanks to KoolBRZ in the previous posts, he has made a tune for me. (read the previous posts about that progress and fine tuning)

TM 10-21-2015 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keen as (Post 2427645)
In Nth America, most users have the tune supplied by OFT.
To my frustration after many request, OFT is not supporting other ROMs.

Isn't @Gums using an OFT tune in AU? Maybe it's for an older cal id.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

KoolBRZ 10-21-2015 10:49 PM
Here are the tunes
 
MT tunes are A00C, A01C, A01G, B01C, and D00C. AT tunes are A00D, A01D, B01D, and D00D. Please monitor fuel trims, and if you rescale your MAF, send me your tune, a spreadsheet of your MAF scaling, or even a pic of your changes. I would like to average out the changes, and apply them to all the tunes I release.
:burnrubber:

keen as 10-21-2015 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TM (Post 2427669)
Isn't @Gums using an OFT tune in AU? Maybe it's for an older cal id.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes Gums was using an OFT tune for his A00G that was provided to him around 12-18 months ago. Since that time the Phantom SC tunes were revised for Nth America. Not supported for other ROMS.


I have A01G. I had someone convert Gums original tune to my ROM and I wasn't happy with the tune, too lean at 2-3k rpm. Perhaps there were some hidden tables that weren't copied. KoolBRZ explained how to hopefully overcome the hidden tables. KoolBRZ tune is much better, however, still needs fine tuning, I will attempt MAF rescaling.

Gums 10-21-2015 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TM (Post 2427669)
Isn't @Gums using an OFT tune in AU? Maybe it's for an older cal id.
Yes, Shiv did a tune for my V1 system, now upgraded to V2/Procede so I'm running a version of the US tune adapted to my A00G cal id by @dtec and @Sojhinn procede tune. (many thanks)

It's not ideal and I have stalling issues with starting/warm up. These can be overcome with switching the car off when it starts to go back to normal idle speeds and then restarting until it will idle ok.

Both @keen as and @dtec have been very helpfull and with all the good people out there G Rom should be sorted soon.

Very soon, thanks @Kool BRZ,

tzbang 10-21-2015 11:39 PM
Well that's a bit unfortunate that there is no OFT tunes for AUS, do you think it's safe to assume the NZ versions of the 86 ECU is the same as Australia?

What is actually different about the US/AU ECUs?

(Maybe by the time my name comes up on that list - the tunes for AU/NZ market will be available?)

keen as 10-21-2015 11:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzbang (Post 2427785)
Well that's a bit unfortunate that there is no OFT tunes for AUS, do you think it's safe to assume the NZ versions of the 86 ECU is the same as Australia?

What is actually different about the US/AU ECUs?

(Maybe by the time my name comes up on that list - the tunes for AU/NZ market will be available?)

the manufacturer has different ROMs for different markets. Differences are required for each market. Also, as time goes, the Manufacturer changes the ROMs. Hence lots of different CAL ID. Sometimes the only difference will be the name, eg A01G compared to A00G. this "G-ROM" is in AUS and some part Europe, I believe.


I'd hope the NZ would have same CAL ID as AUS.


I think when the time comes, something can be worked out.

tzbang 10-22-2015 12:10 AM
Ok sorry for the questions - so to recap:
1. I'll need to factor in having to make my own cables to suit RHD
2. There is no ideal/perfect tune as yet available for AUS/NZ but it's in development using OFT.

What about a tune using Ecutek or something for AUS/NZ

KoolBRZ 10-22-2015 12:25 AM
alternatives to OFT tunes for ESC
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzbang (Post 2427808)
Ok sorry for the questions - so to recap:
1. I'll need to factor in having to make my own cables to suit RHD
2. There is no ideal/perfect tune as yet available for AUS/NZ but it's in development using OFT.

What about a tune using Ecutek or something for AUS/NZ
Ecutek, or BRZedit are copyright protected software. RomRaider is Open Source. With Open Source you have a supportive network who can openly share what they've learned. With Ecutek or BRZedit you are at the mercy of the tuner. If you don't like it, you can always put yourself into the hands of another tuner, hopefully more knowledgable. With a remote tune your support is even farther away, but your tune might be even better. If you get a really good tune, you can't share it with anyone.

l0aded 10-22-2015 03:06 AM
Getting new tires finally so I might be able to log some 0-60s with my shitty launches.

Also looking forward to trying the new tunes for OFT and Procede.

BTW what were the changes in rev 3?

TM 10-22-2015 03:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by l0aded (Post 2427946)
BTW what were the changes in rev 3?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenton (Post 2401530)
Rev 3 kit has had some updates, mostly with ease of installation and compatibility additions for Procede
Seems like mostly wiring updates.

KoolBRZ 10-22-2015 12:12 PM
@tzbang, what is your CAL ID?

keen as 10-22-2015 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolBRZ (Post 2428254)
@tzbang, what is your CAL ID?

tzbang doesn't have a unit yet. However, I wonder what the ROM is for NZ. I expect the same ROMs as AUS.


Also, can you make an A00G ROM for Gums, in AUS?


I will update you with MAF scaling after it's done.

KoolBRZ 10-22-2015 08:52 PM
Just sent it in a PM. I'll post it with the others once it passes inspection.
P.S. Bear in mind these are ESC tunes, so they won't perform as well NA because the timing is reduced to prevent detonation under boost.

tzbang 10-22-2015 10:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolBRZ (Post 2428876)
P.S. Bear in mind these are ESC tunes, so they won't perform as well NA because the timing is reduced to prevent detonation under boost.
Do you mean the car will be slower when it's not WOT (on boost) with a ESC tune?

KoolBRZ 10-22-2015 10:42 PM
I have the PROcede and I'm always on boost.

keen as 10-23-2015 12:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzbang (Post 2428946)
Do you mean the car will be slower when it's not WOT (on boost) with a ESC tune?

With the current 2 stage throttle switch or Procede controller, the car never feels slower. Always feels like plenty of power, like bigger motor.


How it works is if you need bit extra acceleration, use the throttle pedal a bit more and it will activate either stage 1 of the throttle switch, approx. 1psi boost or the Procede, has variable boost (as KoolBRZ has). If you need full acceleration, then full throttle for full boost.


IF you were to have the unit switched off and have no boost, then at higher rev ranges, the compressor is a restriction in the air intake and will reduce power.

KoolBRZ 10-23-2015 12:31 PM
If you have an OFT, you can try it yourself
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzbang (Post 2428946)
Do you mean the car will be slower when it's not WOT (on boost) with a ESC tune?
If you have an OFT you can try some tunes yourself and tell us what you think. The only difference is the timing and pressure related tables. I'll make 2 tunes. One with all of Wayno's changes and my changes for NA , and one with Wayno's changes, my changes, and the ESC changes for pressure and timing. You can try them both out and tell us what you think. You'll need to tell me your CAL ID first, so I know which ROM to use.

tzbang 10-24-2015 06:36 AM
Cheers, but I don't have a OFT yet. I've only just got the car and I'm just starting to do some research about what I want to do with it. Pretty keen on the Phantom but unsure about how to tune yet since I'm in NZ.
How do I find out my CAL ID btw? Actually.. where do I even find the ECU? LOL (newb alert)

KoolBRZ 10-28-2015 12:48 PM
Fixed Load limits
 
I found out load limits are important, so I checked the Load Limit tables on all the tunes and found three that were wrong. If you have a CAL ID of A01D, A01G, or B01D, and you used one of my tunes, your load limit tables are wrong. I fixed them and replaced the zipped folders with new ones. Here they are.

TM 11-01-2015 02:57 PM
For those with the odyssey battery, what are these screws for? Are they for the top of the SAE posts? If so, what's the purpose of them?

http://i.imgur.com/s3suF8q.jpg

Also, when it says to torque down the top caps, does it mean the hex screws that are part of the SAE posts or the ones I circled in the picture?

Sojhinn 11-01-2015 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TM (Post 2438560)
For those with the odyssey battery, what are these screws for? Are they for the top of the SAE posts? If so, what's the purpose of them?

http://i.imgur.com/s3suF8q.jpg

Also, when it says to torque down the top caps, does it mean the hex screws that are part of the SAE posts or the ones I circled in the picture?

I didn't have posts on my battery. But it looks like the screws are for the posts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

KoolBRZ 11-01-2015 03:50 PM
You will need both of the screws
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TM (Post 2438560)
For those with the odyssey battery, what are these screws for? Are they for the top of the SAE posts? If so, what's the purpose of them?

http://i.imgur.com/s3suF8q.jpg

Also, when it says to torque down the top caps, does it mean the hex screws that are part of the SAE posts or the ones I circled in the picture?
You will need at least one of the screws for the negative cable. It wraps around to the left to provide another post for the car's negative clamp. the positive terminal may or may not require the bolt to hold down the various connectors. Bottom line, the connectors have to reach, and they have to stay tight.

TM 11-01-2015 06:22 PM
1 Attachment(s)
I used the smaller screwsthat came with the odyssey for the negative. I feel like I don't need the bigger screw that came with the SAE post to go on top of the positive since I don't need to screw on an eyelet connector to it?Attachment 124126


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sojhinn 11-01-2015 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TM (Post 2438717)
I used the smaller screwsthat came with the odyssey for the negative. I feel like I don't need the bigger screw that came with the SAE post to go on top of the positive since I don't need to screw on an eyelet connector to it?Attachment 124126


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looks good


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TM 11-01-2015 07:06 PM
I ended up putting the top screw on anyway since it looked kind of bare without it. Finally retired the powersonic!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

KoolBRZ 11-06-2015 08:38 PM
New tweaks for ESC tunes
 
2 Attachment(s)
This week I've been working on a tweak @steve99 passed on, the Tip-In enrichment tweak. I tried it his way and it shifted much smoother, but had a bit less power, so I figured it wasn't right for the ESC and I could do better. Well, several tries later I can show you how to do it worse in many ways, and 2 ways to do it better. Once I had the Tip-In figured out, I started working on Port Injection to try and get better cruising mileage, my theory being that Port injection gives worse mileage. It's easy to tune for more power, or more mileage, but tricky to tune for both. Here are some pics of my changes compared to the same tables in an OTS ESC tune. The Cold Port Injection map is unchanged, while the Warm and Hot maps are changed the same way. When I have time I'll start adding these to the other tunes I have made, and make them available.


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