Originally Posted by TrackRider54 (Post 1618173)

When I saw the BRZ/FRS in person and test drove it, I immediately knew the demographic the car was aimed at. Me!

I'm 42, wife, child not in a car seat, and already have a "family car". This car is so scary similar to a Datsun 260z or 280z, early RX-7, Toyota Celica Supra, etc. All great cars from the late 70's and early 80's when guys my age were kids reading car mags or just getting our license.

The difference is, the twins have more power than those cars and obliterate them from a performance perspective. Even the best tires back in the 70's and 80's were far worse than the stock tires that come on the BRZ/FRS. Remember the Ferrari 308 from Magnum PI? Yeah...you do if you're my age. We all slobbered over that car. It wore 205/70-14 tires and made a whopping 255hp from a V8 and went 0-60 in about 6.5 seconds which was considered extremely fast back then and truth be told, it still is. Just because a V6 Camry can go faster doesn't mean it's as much fun doing it. I'd rather have a car that feels fast, than one that is fast.

Subaru/Toyota knew exactly who they were designing the car for. They really have the only game in town for those of us who are looking for a time machine of sorts. Yeah, I could buy a Mustang GT or a C6 Corvette, but I've driven them and they just feel huge and ungainly. I can't afford the maintenance on a BMW or Porsche.

Enter the BRZ/FRS. Just what I'm looking for. Inexpensive (relatively), cheap to own, cheap to maintain, good fuel mileage, reliable. If you drive this car like a sane person I see no reason why it wouldn't reward you with 200,000 miles.

Originally Posted by shishand (Post 1634508)

I disagree, the fact that they branded this car under "Scion" should say enough about its demographic: teens.

Originally Posted by imag (Post 1632668)

I will pay $39K for a ts with a supercharger. I would also happily pay $36K for a ts without a supercharger, because I can do a supercharger myself. I just don't want to have to do wheels, brakes, suspension, chassis stiffening *and* add power. I also want the higher resale value that would come from a factory modded car versus a personally modded car. Aftermarket mods are basically worthless when it comes to the secondary market.

That said, I agree with those who say most people won't pay $35K+. I am sure Toyota/Subaru agree with you too - and that's why most of the models will still be standard power, lower cost versions. It just makes sense to have a higher performance version, either this year or next, for those of us who are less price constrained.

As far as substitutes:

A WRX STI is not equal to a BRZ STI, even at the same price. One is a sports car; the other is a sedan.

A Cayman is a two seater, and it will cost more to maintain than a BRZ/FRS. I am sure I am not the only one who would prefer a top-of-the line BRZ/FRS at <$40K to a poverty spec Cayman at $45K. I get on the Porsche configurator and I end up speccing a $80K Cayman S, which is more than I really need to spend on a car. Call it irrational, but that's just how my brain works. I also like that I *could* fit a third person in the BRZ/FRS, while I have no option in the Cayman.


tl;dr: I think a high performance BRZ/FRS fills a nice niche in the market, and I do not think I am alone in wanting one.

Originally Posted by Jegan_V (Post 1634558)

Scion's intentions however may not end up being the true result. The FRS and tC do generally have a lower age demographic however its possible the FRS will have a older demographic than the tC does. The FRS has a bit more of an old school sense about it. Its not concerned about power but rather the fundamentals of driving which is why some people long for a car from the past as a good deal of newer cars are losing this as they're starting to become mobile iPads. The FRS is one of those cars that sort of brings those qualities to the 21st century. Its one of those cars that doesn't necessarily disagree about the notion that "things aren't made like they used to". So I can totally understand why someone middle aged or even someone elderly might also like it. The car itself wasn't intended to target an age demographic, rather it was targeting car enthusiasts and that doesn't have any age restrictions. Giving the 86 to Scion was more of Toyota's way of ensuring Scion didn't disappear tomorrow because it provides a 20,000 boost in sales that Scion otherwise would've have had.

The other Scions however...they tend to attract older people. The pure pricing policy is very much loved by old people, the original xB in particular was more of a hit with older people than their intended demographic. The iQ is another car I only see(and have seen) an elderly driver liking it. The xD is discontinued so its no longer relevant.

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech (Post 1635011)

Interesting what he did not say here - "no plans for turbo/supercharger" does not mean the same as "no power boost".

Originally Posted by Wandr3r (Post 1634366)

Pretty much... :thumbsup: For those of you that have already ordered the 15' do not worry, its not a turbo. Subaru will not up the power for these. Since I enjoy my job, can't say much but I will post details when I can.

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech (Post 1635011)

Interesting what he did not say here - "no plans for turbo/supercharger" does not mean the same as "no power boost".

Originally Posted by Rampage (Post 1635028)

Toyota does not historically add power bumps to its sports cars unless a totally new generation is introduced.

Originally Posted by imag (Post 1635346)

He also didn't say Toyota wouldn't do it ;)

Seriously though, I think any power boost would come from tuning or displacement increase. That doesn't mean I think it's coming this year.

Originally Posted by yo joshman (Post 1636011)

I agree with this statement. The "lack of power" public notion goin around will probably be dealt with by going with the pre existing 2.5 boxer engine with slight modifications. In my opinion that would cost the company the least amount of money to address the problem. Slapping on a turbo or supercharger would be too costly considering internal engine components must be strenghtened/has to meet strict emssion standards etc. Toyota can make a faster frs no problem...but try to make one on the cheap with stiff regulations ?? Thats a tall order. In the end the whole point of this car was to be like the original ae86 cheap/fun/reliable. In that sense i feel like the company did just that. I really dont see the problem some ppl have with this car...u need more power go add some...?

Originally Posted by shishand (Post 1634508)

I disagree, the fact that they branded this car under "Scion" should say enough about its demographic: teens.

And i am in the same boat, i wanted something nice looking, affordable and low cost maintenance.

Different trims of the engine will solve this! My wish: a trim with a 2.5 displacement with a better engine compression ratio, making more turbo/tuner friendly and 250hp w/ 230trq.


I hope i didn't come off as rude, it wasn't my attention!

Originally Posted by Jegan_V (Post 1636154)

Actually of those options, the turbo will be the one that's easiest to pass emissions regulations of the three. A larger displacement engine is better of the three on the fuel economy side(CAFE). The supercharger is the one that will get shafted because it does neither of those well. The issue with going turbo though...making sure it doesn't cause issues for the warranty department. Its the big reason why many would like to see a factory turbo rather than going aftermarket, having that powertrain warranty there is very reassuring. If there is going to be a big engine change, I do think its likely going to come in the form of a 2.5L, as this would be ideal to increase this car's power while at the same time for Subaru makes it easier to finally replace the EJ25 in their whole lineup including the WRX STi.

Originally Posted by Jegan_V (Post 1636154)

Actually of those options, the turbo will be the one that's easiest to pass emissions regulations of the three. A larger displacement engine is better of the three on the fuel economy side(CAFE). The supercharger is the one that will get shafted because it does neither of those well. The issue with going turbo though...making sure it doesn't cause issues for the warranty department. Its the big reason why many would like to see a factory turbo rather than going aftermarket, having that powertrain warranty there is very reassuring. If there is going to be a big engine change, I do think its likely going to come in the form of a 2.5L, as this would be ideal to increase this car's power while at the same time for Subaru makes it easier to finally replace the EJ25 in their whole lineup including the WRX STi.