Would you trade your 86 for a base Cayman (987.2/981)?

[Wil]

Hi everyone,
Everything is in the title. This has been discuss, I think, but not from this angle.

While I love my GT86, its behaviour, its predictable character, its look, its steering and so many many things, everytime I hit the gas pedal, I miss the sound, the power, the smoothness of a six-cylinder engine.

I still wonder why Toyobaru didn't offer this car with a 3.0 six-cylinder engine. It would have been the best thing around, period.

And so, I keep wondering, should I trade my 86 for a base Cayman?
Appart from some financial concerns, what would be the drawback of this upgrade?

Have a nice day,
RW

[dtbdan]

Only after owning my twin for like 3-5 years do i think i would, i just think a twin is more fun as a road car (shorter gearing, lower limits) and as such want to enjoy that. But there is also a time everyone wants to move on and i think a cayman is the next logical step, it is also a much better GT car. So to answer your question, yes, but in time.

[Wil]

Had mine for three years and never thought I could sell it one day. But the lack of engine liveliness starts to weigh more and more in the balance overtime. I'm not looking mainly for power and performance but rather the perfect driving experience.
IMO, the 86 delivers in every department but the power train. The 4-cylinder engine takes away something I absolutely need.

[mazeroni]

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119296

^^^ This guy did a thing that you were thinking about.

I would trade, yes. Never driven either, but I think both the 1st and and 2nd gen Cayman look amazing and I can only image how good the flat-6 sounds and feels from behind the wheel. I've heard a Cayman with what i think were straight-pipes, and my god it was glorious.

The earlier models did have a major engine problems with the intermediate shaft bearing, right?

Yes, the 86 with an updated version of the Subaru H6 would probably be pretty dope.

[NARFALICIOUS]

Originally Posted by Wil

Hi everyone,
Everything is in the title. This has been discuss, I think, but not from this angle.

While I love my GT86, its behaviour, its predictable character, its look, its steering and so many many things, everytime I hit the gas pedal, I miss the sound, the power, the smoothness of a six-cylinder engine.

I still wonder why Toyobaru didn't offer this car with a 3.0 six-cylinder engine. It would have been the best thing around, period.

And so, I keep wondering, should I trade my 86 for a base Cayman?
Appart from some financial concerns, what would be the drawback of this upgrade?

Have a nice day,
RW

I guess my question for you is did you not test drive it to understand how it felt? Did you think Subaru found a magic 2.0L that would in some way feel like 3.0L? Or even 2.5L? Not hating, just wondering.



I wouldn't be against it but I'm not really planning on trading my car in.
For me, the 86 is more of a journey and the fun of playing with it, not about how slow it is or anything like that.

Could it use more power? Sure. It could be a lot of things that it isn't but then it wouldn't be an 86, right?

Like some others here, I prefer to personalize my car, so as much (or based on your perspective, as little) as I've done to the car so far, it would be a waste of my money and efforts to trade to something else now.


If you're okay with the price and are having some buyer's remorse on the 86, then you should trade it in. I have done that before. Although on a more small/slow scale. My first new car in 2005, I bought a 2006 Civic EX, the first year of the 8th gen. I loved it but it wasn't fun. I ended up buying a 2003 RSX Type S and selling the Civic. After seeing the RSX in person and driving it, I knew I would make this decision. Never regretted it. Took a hit financially, but it was worth it. Would it be worth it for you?

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Wil

Hi everyone,
Everything is in the title. This has been discuss, I think, but not from this angle.

While I love my GT86, its behaviour, its predictable character, its look, its steering and so many many things, everytime I hit the gas pedal, I miss the sound, the power, the smoothness of a six-cylinder engine.

I still wonder why Toyobaru didn't offer this car with a 3.0 six-cylinder engine. It would have been the best thing around, period.

And so, I keep wondering, should I trade my 86 for a base Cayman?
Appart from some financial concerns, what would be the drawback of this upgrade?

Have a nice day,
RW

I consider this debate quite often. And I always wind up back at keeping the FRS. Cayman is faster and "better" in every way in terms of driving it (not practicality), but it's just too serious for my typical driving habits.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Spuds

I consider this debate quite often. And I always wind up back at keeping the FRS. Cayman is faster and "better" in every way in terms of driving it (not practicality), but it's just too serious for my typical driving habits.

This is about where I am. I seldom drive my FR-S to it's limits and rarely push the gas pedal all the way to the floor.

However, I would consider a Cayman. Why? Because I've always wanted a Porsche.


humfrz

[nikitopo]

I would never trade my own car with a base 987c car or even a base 981c. I've already beat a base 981 Boxster at road without much issues. It is not a coincidence that vendors like Cosworth in UK or Toda Racing in Japan did research with our cars. I would only consider going to Porsche, only if I wanted something more premium and with a higher status. Or if I wanted to go in the 300+ hp range ...

[ermax]

My only concern would be cost of ownership. Nothing is cheap to replace and with the engine in the middle it probably makes it a little more difficult to work on without a lift.

I spent 6 weeks driving a 2001 Boxster and the sound of the engine is addicting. Blipping on downshifts sounds so nice. The power is more linear. Steering feel was better than the FRS. You feel EVERYTHING. But the shifter blows. Long throw and kind of mushy. Being a Boxster it had tons of rattles and road noise due to the top. I'm sure a lot of this has been refined on the newer Cayman but not sure. I was very glad to get my FRS back on the road. Aside from the torque dip and really crappy sounding engine it's more fun to drive.

Last week I filled up with E85 for the first time and it completely transformed the car. It seems to have filled in the torque dip and it pulls way harder through the whole band. It pulls real smooth from as low as 2000rpm now. Seems to rev more freely on blips too. If only there was a way to make the FA20 sound like a Porsche.

[Tcoat]

The Cayman was on my short list when I was car shopping. I would not consider the base but have an in on getting reasonable priced, low mileage, well maintained Porsches of any model through a family member that works at a dealership. I did have some pretty rough requirements that just simply ruled it right out as a good choice for my needs. I borrowed one for a week to try it out and decide if it was what I wanted.

Price - I would not have wanted too old so was looking at at least twice and possibly three times the price of a brand new FRS.

Operating costs - At that point in time I was driving over 50K miles a year. This means frequent oil changes, quicker wear on tires and all other disposable parts. While some may say the costs of maintaining a Porsche are not that bad they are still way more than an FRS. The fuel mileage isn't a huge difference between the two but is still enough that when you cover the miles I was it had to be considered.

Space - Neither is the most practical for hauling stuff but I did need the ability to have 2 passengers or 1 passenger and two sets of golf clubs. Two or three passengers in the FRS is cozy but it can be done. Not so much with a Cayman and one set of clubs is a challenge much less two and a passenger.

Performance - Yes the Cayman is much faster but where and when would I get to use that power and acceleration? With 95% of my driving done on the highway and the other 5% in stop and go city traffic the ability to accelerate really fast didn't mean much. The very few times I would be able to play were an awful cost per fun mile quotient. I can have just as much fun on an on ramp with the FRS as I could with the Cayman.

Wear and Tear - I wanted a year round car not one I could only drive half a year (Canada Eh) so knew that with the miles I put on it through all seasons it would get beat to shit. I am willing to put a $30K FRS through that. I am not willing to subject a $70K to $100K Porsche to that. Sure I could get a winter beater but storing and maintain a car for 6 months of the year is just a pain in the ass.

Now...
Those were the conditions and needs/wants at that point in time. If any two or three of those condition were to change the decision may be different. In six more years when I am retired and not traveling for work, do not have to haul my two grandsons around with me, if it is snowy I can just stay home (if I am still someplace where there is snow) and the Cayman would then meet most of my needs my options will open back up.
Depending on what is out there new (I will not buy used at that point) in 2024 the Cayman will be back on the short, short list.

Any car you buy will be compromising one thing for another so make a list of your wants and needs (be honest with yourself). Look at that list very closely and see what best fits your situation at that point in time and the next few years and then decide from there.

Keep in mind though that The Grass is Greener Syndrome is a real thing and if you are just shopping for a new car because you are bored with the old one you will probably get bored with the next as well no matter how much "better" it is. This can get expensive in a hurry.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ermax

My only concern would be cost of ownership. Nothing is cheap to replace and with the engine in the middle it probably makes it a little more difficult to work on without a lift.

I spent 6 weeks driving a 2001 Boxster and the sound of the engine is addicting. Blipping on downshifts sounds so nice. The power is more linear. Steering feel was better than the FRS. You feel EVERYTHING. But the shifter blows. Long throw and kind of mushy. Being a Boxster it had tons of rattles and road noise due to the top. I'm sure a lot of this has been refined on the newer Cayman but not sure. I was very glad to get my FRS back on the road. Aside from the torque dip and really crappy sounding engine it's more fun to drive.

Last week I filled up with E85 for the first time and it completely transformed the car. It seems to have filled in the torque dip and it pulls way harder through the whole band. It pulls real smooth from as low as 2000rpm now. Seems to rev more freely on blips too. If only there was a way to make the FA20 sound like a Porsche.

Nope. They are still pretty much the same really.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by humfrz

This is about where I am. I seldom drive my FR-S to it's limits and rarely push the gas pedal all the way to the floor.

However, I would consider a Cayman. Why? Because I've always wanted a Porsche.


humfrz

Well, what I meant was that I drive the FRS spiritedly on back roads all the time, but the limiting factor there is safety (driver reaction time), not the cars performance. In the Porsche, I can't safely drive any faster, and it's less interesting to drive at those speeds.

However, sometimes I want the Porsche for highway driving. And because Porsche. And that H6... And...

[DandoX]

I have considered it but in reality I kind of like the slower pace of the 86, keeps me out of trouble. I enjoy doing more with less which the 86 caters to. It feels like an under dog which I think makes it cool.

The cost of ownership is also an issue, and I'm not appealed by the status of the Porsche. Also the 86 is better looking with lots of fun aftermarket toys that are reasonably priced. Also as it was mentioned earlier a Cayman seems too serious for my liking, the 86 is just too playful for me to give it up.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

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The earlier models did have a major engine problems with the intermediate shaft bearing, right?

The 987.1 engines have IMS bearings. Are they a major problem? No. They had a (relatively high in comparison) failure rate on the M96 engine found in the 996 and 986 cars. The IMS in the M97 engine is a redesigned more robust bearing with a very low failure rate.

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I would never trade my own car with a base 987c car or even a base 981c. I've already beat a base 981 Boxster at road without much issues.

Did he know you were racing? Because stock vs stock it's not even close.

Originally Posted by ermax

My only concern would be cost of ownership. Nothing is cheap to replace and with the engine in the middle it probably makes it a little more difficult to work on without a lift.

Accessing and working on the engine actually isn't as bad as one would think. Were that the only concern someone had when considering purchase I would argue it's a non-factor.