Nameless Performance Equal Length Stepped Header

[epson1]

I still want a single exit catback. Please? So I don't have to have one made locally. Pm me. And why not a cheaper JD2 bender? I use the shit out of mine for roll cages

[Jason@Nameless]

We want to be able to bring full mandrel bent exhausts to market same day. Right now we just work with a few local vendors (one for purpose built bends and Columbia Rier Mandrel Bending for U bend stock) and will probably continue to do so in the future for certain parts, but for the most part, being able to knock out a design and finalize it within a day or two would be great. And having the ability to reduce shelf stock and continue our lean manufacturing effort would be a huge benefit to us.

Also, from a chassis and control arm development perspective, minimizing bend deformation also minimizes the potential of stress risers in the parts. Plus, ya gotta remember 85% of our systems are 3" (outside of general draw bender capacity), and nobody is really into buying draw bent exhausts. If we were mainly doing small diameter thick gauge stuff we would have already bought some kind of ratcheting draw bender.

Getting a .75-4" capacity mandrel bender will be huge for us. Did the math recently and even shifting 50% of our capacity in house is going to allow us to pay a bender off in no time flat.

Also keeping our complex part bending in house is going to be critical to minimize costs for items like these headers. We are also working on getting a 24" blade cold saw with hydraulic clamping and purpose built soft jaws for precision cuts on collectors and other position critical cutting operations. Right now we use a badass Ellis horizontal band saw for our cutting ops. It's amazing but the cold saw is accurate to within .002-.005 inch. Miles better than any band saw can ever aspire to achieve.

If you want to hear more about how we do stuff, or have ideas on how we could improve, feel free to ask or give us suggestions. Some of the best applied concepts we have put to work here came from a variety of industrial and engineering projects we have worked on outside of the automotive industry. And we really dig talking about some of these ideas as concepts. Also like getting fellow enthusiasts into fabrication. None of this shit is particularly top secret or proprietary for the most part. Even though a lot of shops like to act like it is. Bah. Rubbish!

J

[ngabdala]

Jason, you guys have definitely earned my business. Now, I just need my BRZ to come in and after the first 1000 miles I'll be purchasing your products. You guys were the first to make these parts, you stand behind American work, your product quality, and listen to your customers.

I never bought an Asian knock-off product whether it be a watch, clothing, electronics. Knock-offs are just that. Lower quality, cheaper parts, and not as good as the real deal.

They may use cheaper lower-quality parts, but your prices, workmanship, honesty, and performance just can't be beat.

[Neziah]

Originally Posted by Jason@Nameless

Here is the rub: one persons drone is another persons "sounds wicked on tip in!"

Even the full header to op/dp combo to single exit we have had on the car since 132 miles is pretty quiet at cruise.

Tip in passing through 4000rpm is ballistic though. And cold start scatters birds out of the trees.

J

I was really surprised how good that set up sounded! I was expecting some nasty rally car tyoe noises, but I really liked the idle, quite, yet with a nice deeper tone than stock. Sure we had to cover our ears when it was WOT on the dyno in the shop, but very cool. I really like to be able to hear the exhuast when a car is idleing instead of the fuel system and belt noise.

Also Congrats on the new equipment!

[Tainen]

Originally Posted by Neziah

I was really surprised how good that set up sounded! I was expecting some nasty rally car tyoe noises, but I really liked the idle, quite, yet with a nice deeper tone than stock. Sure we had to cover our ears when it was WOT on the dyno in the shop, but very cool. I really like to be able to hear the exhuast when a car is idleing instead of the fuel system and belt noise.

Also Congrats on the new equipment!

I thought the goal was to make the exhaust louder than the chirping noises for everyone? haha.

[dabocx]

Originally Posted by Jason@Nameless

Here is the rub: one persons drone is another persons "sounds wicked on tip in!"

Even the full header to op/dp combo to single exit we have had on the car since 132 miles is pretty quiet at cruise.

Tip in passing through 4000rpm is ballistic though. And cold start scatters birds out of the trees.

J

Doesnt sound too bad. Is there drone from 70-80 area? Thats my main concern, If not ill just upgrade to something quieter you make down the line.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by dabocx

Doesnt sound too bad. Is there drone from 70-80 area? Thats my main concern, If not ill just upgrade to something quieter you make down the line.

To a point it'll be hard to control drone unless you go with a setup they can test against since other components will change where the drone occurs (freq) I'd guess.

Based on my conversation with Jason yesterday, he is working on figuring out which freqs he needs to reject (well he knows this part for some of their parts already actually). Once known, he can use one (or multiple) helmholtz resonators to eliminate those frequencies, depending on what the user wants. So if you only care about 3-4k cruising you may not care about a drone that happens at 6k for example, or you may be able to order it to cancel out all of them, etc.. each helmholtz resonator added costs money though so most will likely just care about 2-4k or so I'd suspect.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Ugh, now I have no idea what to do. Take my money dammit!

[Tainen]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Ugh, now I have no idea what to do. Take my money dammit!

Maybe they can set up a payment plan for us. We give them 100/mo and they just send us parts every few months. Just input whether you like loud or quiet.

[dabocx]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

To a point it'll be hard to control drone unless you go with a setup they can test against since other components will change where the drone occurs (freq) I'd guess.

Based on my conversation with Jason yesterday, he is working on figuring out which freqs he needs to reject (well he knows this part for some of their parts already actually). Once known, he can use one (or multiple) helmholtz resonators to eliminate those frequencies, depending on what the user wants. So if you only care about 3-4k cruising you may not care about a drone that happens at 6k for example, or you may be able to order it to cancel out all of them, etc.. each helmholtz resonator added costs money though so most will likely just care about 2-4k or so I'd suspect.

Works for me!

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Tainen

Maybe they can set up a payment plan for us. We give them 100/mo and they just send us parts every few months. Just input whether you like loud or quiet.

That's a huge loss on shipping for them :-/

I love how the current axleback sounds, but I want drone free highway driving (as Dave-ROR said, 2-4K) when I add the overpipe/DP and any headers. I would LOVE a muffled single exit on the quieter side, BUT I will take moderately loud as long as it does not drone. Basically, drone is the enemy while loudness is acceptable as long as the tone is nice and it's not ear-shattering loud. In the WRX I could back up loudness, not so much in this car

I understand compromises have to be made and that's acceptable. What I'm looking for is drone-free 30-80 mph driving, deep tone at idle, and a nice growl when WOT. Not ear-shattering, but not kitten quiet.

On a side note: Any plans for plate frames? I'd rock a NAMELESS plate frame any day of the week.

[fenton]

^In same boat. With my STi i didnt care it was loud because it was flying when i went by. Plus in the STi first and second gear, hell even third gear fly by. Going up a hill in the FRS is painful with the revs hardly climbing. If you can tell i miss my2011 with nameless axelback

The car isnt fast enough to be loud in my opinion. I laugh my ass off at civic's integra's that are loud as sin and slowly accelerate away from traffic.

[Jason@Nameless]

Plate frames are on the way right now. Black plastic w/ large embossed winged nameless logo in white on the lower portion and nothing on the top.

[warning: science]

Dabocx, are you asking about drone at 70-80 in 6th? Resonance is frequency based and is based upon engine RPM and load. I can make this straight pipe single exit system not drone at any RPM based on throttle modulation, but that is insanely unrealistic for regular driving. If I cruise down a normal stretch of freeway with standard light elevation changes, the drone is almost nil at that speed in 6th, but if I do the same thing up a 14% grade, it's a whole different story. Of course, I can also downshift and bring the revs up past 4500rpm and the resonance drops markedly. Either way, what Dave said is true to some extent: We can cancel given frequencies by use of standard mufflers or helmholtz resonators or both. On our Genesis 3.8R we use only helmholtz resonators, resulting in a very aggressive sound outside the car but almost zero resonance inside the car. If we do the same thing with mufflers, the in-car may be slightly higher resonance but the out of car drops markedly. You do both and you can get ultra quiet (read: boring). I'm down for testing all sorts of designs and using our new condenser mic in tandem with a frequency log to share each design with the community so that people can make an educated decision. Soon enough, many of these designs will be all over the country and we can just do what we do with the STi crowd and forward potential customers contact info over to existing customers and give the existing customer the opportunity to meet up with the interested party to show the sound of the car. We do this all the time. The last time we did this the closest existing customer was a sales guy at a Maserati/Ferrari dealership. He replied to the new customer 'Come on out to the Maser dealership, my STi is the best sounding car on the lot.' New customer bought the exhaust instantly. Didn't even go to listen....and was not disappointed. :-D Was probably afraid his car would catch on fire from simply being in a Ferrari lot. :-D

Here are some screen shots of the frequency logging application we use and how granular of data it gives us in terms of offending frequencies using some of the FFT/Octave/ThirdOctave as well as 2D and 3D visual settings built into the system. Best part is, it records the audio track and allows us to alter the settings and then do full playback with annotation. Very very helpful on dialing in systems like this. Science is badass.

These are (all header + overpipe/downpipe + track straight pipe axleback single exit):

3D view which is great in realtime to view the offending spikes through the power range as you can visualize them in the 3D graph over time

2D of drone free cruise

2D of resonant drone and the two offending peak frequencies that cause it.



One thing I noted when talking to Dave yesterday that everyone should know is that we have prototype STi exhausts here that drone horribly in the cabin, and then the altered designs that killed all of the drone (just based on pipe routing and length tuning) that show up as nearly identical dB levels in the cabin, but perceptibly, the offensive system that hits the resonant frequency of the cabin volume (space in the car, hatchback in this case) sounds louder by 2x. Moral of the story: dB is not a good method of determining sound perception inside the car if frequency hits those resonant points. I wish I had those two clips to compare but we took them with really basic software that is nowhere near as good as this new version.

[/science]

Jason

[Tainen]

Any sort of metal/welded looking plate frame? That'd look cool.

Where's mah mug?!

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Tainen

Any sort of metal/welded looking plate frame? That'd look cool.

Where's mah mug?!

Nothing like metal rattling against the trunk lid

[Tainen]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Nothing like metal rattling against the trunk lid

Bah that's what foam backing tape is for. I use it on my RC airplanes all the time.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Tainen

Bah that's what foam backing tape is for. I use it on my RC airplanes all the time.

As a quick ghetto fix regular double sided tape works also, just don't pull off the cover on the car side.. I use that on the license plate of the BRZ after it rattled.

[ImAwesome]

Id love something like a helmholtz resonated straight pipe

[industrial]

Originally Posted by Jason@Nameless

[warning: science]

10010101010000010101111001010101

[/science]

Jason

Damn nerds. I swear I might actually learn something when I'm trying to waste my time.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by industrial

Damn nerds. I swear I might actually learn something when I'm trying to waste my time.

Well there are only 10 types of people in the world... :P

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Well there are only 10 types of people in the world... :P

QFT

[serialk11r]

@Jason@Nameless may I ask what microphone are you using? Omnidirectional?
As you may know cardioid mics are biased, typically less response at low frequency, but that probably doesn't matter since it's not the super low frequencies that are typically the problem.