Wrecked FR-S Crash Already - Not Mine

[ChrisH]

Folks, although today cars are equipped with VSC/TSC/ABS, generations of drivers managed to drive their RWD cars without all this stuff!
When I started with my first car (RWD), none of these systems even existed.
Even my current car does not have VSC.
And CERTAINLY I switch off the TSC, when go fast through a nice corner, as the crap is just disturbing and unnecessary - if you have learned to control your car and your emotions!

And yes, all these nice new systems make you a less complete driver, as you will not learn to handle your car at the limits.
Join a driver safety training with a kick plate - and just watch, how many drivers are unable to control their car and just spin off - although their VSC/TSC/ABS can't even be switched off.
- No, the VSC will NOT be able to stabilize the car.
- And yes, a well trained driver can do it.

- YouTube

With regards to ABS I have to state, that it is a big safety issue in the winter on fresh, loose snow (or on gravel/sand), as it increases the braking distance a lot under these conditions.
Very difficult to understand, why ABS off buttons have disappeared.
The only thing you need to learn is how to steer the car when braking on snow, and again, this can be learned by everyone (just open the brake for steering).

Clear message:
Do whatever it takes to become a skilled driver - and take these systems as a nice add-on.

[thill]

I have to say, that while I agree that turning off traction and stability on public roads is not a good idea if you are not experienced with a RWD car, or do not understand how far you can push the car, traction and stability control will also not save you from the laws of physics. Just drive smartly. There is a time and place to drive the car hard. A large empty parking lot is a good place to start.

As for the comments about insurance and recalls, people need to calm down. While I am sure the OP may see a rise in his insurance rates, it will have little affect on anyone else unless this becomes the trend with this car.

I also found neutral's confession and his accountability refreshing. So many people these days dont want to accept the consequences of their actions and like to blame somebody or something else. Everyone makes mistakes, glad nobody was hurt.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by blur

I get the feeling a recall is coming...

A recall because of a stupid beginner's mistake?
Rather unlikely...

[BobDigi5060]

OP said he turned the traction control off and gave some gas while driving through his "favorite right turn". Don't know how we can chalk this up to anything other than a life lesson.. All it takes is good judgement to prevent from wrecking your sh*t on the street.

There is no need to get all technical about driving dynamics.. I see no shortage of cab drivers when snow is on the streets of Denver.

[BobDigi5060]

with that being said, 2 things about bein a man:

Leadership

Learning from the past

I don't own one, but this is ft86.. he is our bro.. I'm sorry for being catty in my previous post

[neutral]

Originally Posted by BobDigi5060

with that being said, 2 things about bein a man:

Leadership

Learning from the past

I don't own one, but this is ft86.. he is our bro.. I'm sorry for being catty in my previous post

Thanks man. I'd say that what you said was warranted and accurate though. I should've known better. And what you said was nothing compared to what the guys on Jalopnik said about me. Completely different opinions over there. It's just nice to get a feeling of community here. I'm really glad you guys didn't ostracize me. I will be a better person and a better, more responsible driver after this experience.

[blur]

Originally Posted by Quentin

Because someone turned off the stability and traction control and wrecked? I think you're being a little dramatic. People wreck cars every day even with TC and SC on.

Same thing happened with the MR2, toyota had to neuter it... honestly a simple spring swap with the BRZ springs should reduce incidents like this. Maybe scion should organize free HPDE events for FRS owners, maybe word will get around as the car gets more popular that this car has a kick to it.

And not every car behaves like this at the limit, a RWD with an open diff wouldn't oversteer like that. Not many RWD cars come factory with LSD or such an aggressive suspension tune.

Anyway, to OP, I can't believe you didn't know the car's reaction would be oversteer; I've watched too many race crashes and every time it's the rear wheels that lose traction, never ever ever the front. I've lost rear traction in the rain due to ghey rear tires... in a FWD. I 180'ed into a sign, minor bodywork damage thank goodness.

There was actually a Jalopnik featured story recently where a guy with the same car as me was street racing and lost rear traction on the highway, and slammed into the barrier on the other side of the highway, after careening across 3 lanes.

Anyway, never EVER push a car to it's limits on a public road. Take it to an HPDE and have a blast safely!

[dookie11]

Originally Posted by mr2lor

and the rise of insurance rates on fr-s...

This was the only thing I was thinking the whole time I read the OP. Less than a month, and the statistics start to build...

[neutral]

Originally Posted by blur

Anyway, to OP, I can't believe you didn't know the car's reaction would be oversteer; I've watched too many race crashes and every time it's the rear wheels that lose traction, never ever ever the front. I've lost rear traction in the rain due to ghey rear tires... in a FWD. I 180'ed into a sign, minor bodywork damage thank goodness.

Of course I knew it would oversteer. The problem is I wasn't ready for the feeling of oversteer, and was so startled that I couldn't even process a way to react to the situation correctly. Seeing it is one thing, experiencing it was a whole new ballgame, at least for me.

[blur]

Originally Posted by neutral

Of course I knew it would oversteer. The problem is I wasn't ready for the feeling of oversteer, and was so startled that I couldn't even process a way to react to the situation correctly. Seeing it is one thing, experiencing it was a whole new ballgame, at least for me.

Lol imagine the surprise for me, driving a FWD and having the rear break out... I didn't even comprehend what happened for a while lol.

live and learn. This is why the FR-S is built to be safe, and why people have insurance Im glad your okay.

[russv]

I wonder if his insurance company reads this forum?

[neutral]

Originally Posted by russv

I wonder if his insurance company reads this forum?

Why should it matter? I told them what I did. Not like they're gonna deny me coverage for being stupid. If that was the case, we'd have a lot of denied insurance claims...

[Hamza7]

My deepest condolences to the owner, I know every time I get accident minor or major. I feel absolutely gutted.

For the rest of you DRIVE SAFE

[sdshores08]

I'm glad no one was hurt. Giving a car some gas through a corner with no one else around doesn't seem like a heinous idea, and it's something I probably would have tried myself at low speeds like this. Thanks to Neutral for sharing his story, and to the finer members around here offering good advice about autocross events instead of complaining about insurance rates, I will definitely find an autocross event nearby to learn the limits of this car and satisfy the desire to drive it how it was designed to be driven.

[ToxicSneakers]

Originally Posted by sdshores08

I'm glad no one was hurt. Giving a car some gas through a corner with no one else around doesn't seem like a heinous idea, and it's something I probably would have tried myself at low speeds like this. Thanks to Neutral for sharing his story, and to the finer members around here offering good advice about autocross events instead of complaining about insurance rates, I will definitely find an autocross event nearby to learn the limits of this car and satisfy the desire to drive it how it was designed to be driven.

Way!

[thill]

Originally Posted by dookie11

This was the only thing I was thinking the whole time I read the OP. Less than a month, and the statistics start to build...

Sorry, but this is simply not true. If it was, nobody would be able to afford insurance on almost any sports car out there. If you are a good driver with a clean record, insurance companies will want to keep you and will be very competitive in terms of insuring this car.

[FT_Monk]

So many driving geniuses in this thread; VSC/TSC/ABS are hindrance to their superior driving skills. Of course they don't tell you when they crashed.

[fito68]

Taking a right hand turn at 20? the street isnt a fucking track!

[russv]

Originally Posted by neutral

Why should it matter? I told them what I did. Not like they're gonna deny me coverage for being stupid. If that was the case, we'd have a lot of denied insurance claims...

Why admit to turning off the traction control?

[titusdrake]

*salute*

we can all learn from this. Keep ur damn traction control on.

[neutral]

Originally Posted by russv

Why admit to turning off the traction control?

Why lie? They aren't there to judge and decide whether I'm worthy to receive coverage. They're there because I pay them money to insure my vehicle.

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by fito68

Taking a right hand turn at 20? the street isnt a fucking track!

What tracks have 20mph turns!?!