Spark plug removal? Changed your feelings for BRZ?

[lordtakuban]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Spec for most platinum tipped plugs in most cars is 100k. I replace mine every 60k or so but have never noticed an obvious difference.

Yep. I replaced mine at about 80K and that was with lots of methanol being injected into the chamber for about 25K miles. So 100K is doable, but figure 60K to 75K as a conservative estimate.

[dirk_diggler]

Denso ZXE27HBR8 is an Iridium plug. On my prev Camry the change interval on the Iridium plugs was 120k miles. When I pulled them at 110k I saw no difference between what I pulled and the new ones. The gap on the used ones was 0.032 instead of new at 0.031. I put the new ones in since I got the old ones out, but it made no difference whatsoever. Biggest waste of time ever, especially since the bank closest to the firewall was a PITA to remove.

Anyone have ideas why Toyota/Subaru wants us to replace these Iridium plugs at 60k?

Come to think of it, looking at the first section of the shop manual posted in another thread, the service intervals for all services seems compressed. Are they figuring everyone will drive the piss out of these cars?

[immortal_suby]

I bet it is still easier than the plugs on an svx.

[AZP Installs]

Originally Posted by immortal_suby

I bet it is still easier than the plugs on an svx.

I miss my SVX!

I haven't looked at the intervals yet but my guess is the usual Subaru intervals, 30k and 60k get gear, brake and engine fluids, 100k gets coolant, 60k gets plugs. Oil changes every 7500.

-mike


11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.
Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.
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[ahausheer]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

Cool story. Taking the wheel off is not what annoys me. What annoys me is that a job that should be simple and take 5 minutes now takes 30 minutes for no reason other than bad engineering.

Perhaps a bad design decision but not bad engineering. They knew early on in the development of the motor about this. You likely wont have to lift the engine, you'll just have to get creative with sockets, extensions and curse words. Now changing the starter motor looks a bit harder, hope that never fails.

[Sony]

Originally Posted by ahausheer

Now changing the starter motor looks a bit harder, hope that never fails.

Really? That didn't look terribly hard to me, it's sitting right on top of the bell housing right near the firewall, next to the slave cylinder. Looked like there was plenty of room to get it out.

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by ahausheer

Perhaps a bad design decision but not bad engineering. They knew early on in the development of the motor about this. You likely wont have to lift the engine, you'll just have to get creative with sockets, extensions and curse words. Now changing the starter motor looks a bit harder, hope that never fails.

I was talking about the civic si

[bucket]

Originally Posted by eikond

I have mixed feelings about this topic. The difficulty of changing the spark plugs wouldn't dissuade me from buy the car new.. but it would certainly make me think twice about buying one used in a few years.

I've had a long string of Nissan 240sx's.. I can't tell you how many times I needed to pull spark plugs as part of diagnosis as you're working on the car. Being able to swap plugs to find a misfire, check the color of the tips to see if it's rich or lean, do compression tests, and other stuff makes a used car or a modified car easy to live with. Having to lift a motor to do any of these things will make this an unfriendly car to own and modify when it's a bit older. I'm not a big fan of this.

All I can think about whenever somebody mentions that changing plugs is something you do once every five years is when I was driving around with a slightly bad MAF plug on my 240. I was changing out or at least inspecting the spark plugs monthly...sometimes they would show rich, sometimes lean, occasionally not bad.

Then I remind myself that this is a new warrantied car that I'm not going to F with to the same extent as the 240.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by bucket

Then I remind myself that this is a new warrantied car that I'm not going to F with to the same extent as the 240.

*DING! DING! DING!* WINNER!

Everybody I know with one of those or who ever owned one was fucking with them constantly. There's a difference between a 10-20 year old rice rocket and new one.

Actually, one dumb SOB friend of mine is selling is S14 to buy an older S13...that makes sense.

[Rampage]

So, if the plugs have to be changed at 60K and a lot of people here are saying they are not concerned with it then I guess in 4-5 years there are going to be a lot of these available on the used car market. Let the next owner worry about it.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by Mavrik

Having worked/rebuilt several subaru engines in my past, both turbo duel overhead cam and single n/a engines... the spark plug placement doesn't bother me a bit. Its no different in placement then any of their other engines. Seems to have more room than an STi infact.

I agree that there seems to be more room than in the STi. Most times people think you have to drop, pull the motor to do the plugs on Subarus, but I could do all four in my STi with just a flex head ratchet and an extension. Pull a few things out of the way and all 4 can be swapped in under 30 minutes. It isn't as bad as it seems and a Subaru mechanic worth his weight shouldn't have too much trouble and then the price should be reasonable. Or get a DIY and do it in the Autozone parking lot since it doesn't take so long. Lol

[OrbitalEllipses]

What's all this about a Subaru mechanic worth their weight? As a shade tree mechanic, I did plugs on my WRX for the first time ever in about 2 hours, with no previous experience on a Subaru, or any car ever for that matter. It was kind of a bitch, but I certainly didn't get the engine out of the car. You had to first remove the stock intake snorkel and airbox for the passenger side (maybe move the power steering reservoir too); the driver's side required removing the windshield washer reservoir (larger on my wagon than on the sedans). That's it. Flex head + extension, done.

[AZP Installs]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

What's all this about a Subaru mechanic worth their weight? As a shade tree mechanic, I did plugs on my WRX for the first time ever in about 2 hours, with no previous experience on a Subaru, or any car ever for that matter. It was kind of a bitch, but I certainly didn't get the engine out of the car. You had to first remove the stock intake snorkel and airbox for the passenger side (maybe move the power steering reservoir too); the driver's side required removing the windshield washer reservoir (larger on my wagon than on the sedans). That's it. Flex head + extension, done.

On the bugeyes there are no air pumps so they are quicker than the newer ones. It takes about 2hrs with cool down etc to do em on just about any subie.

-mike


11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.
Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.
AIM: AZP Installs | E-mail: paisan@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber
"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

[Sleeperz]

What type of seal is used on the sparkplug? Taper seal or washer gasket?

Also a problem of leaving a sparkplug along time in an aluminum head is the threads in the head may strip out when removing. Does anyone put antiseize on the sparkplug threads before putting them back on?

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by Sleeperz

Also a problem of leaving a sparkplug along time in an aluminum head is the threads in the head may strip out when removing. Does anyone put antiseize on the sparkplug threads before putting them back on?

Every human being on the planet should know to do this.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

What's all this about a Subaru mechanic worth their weight? As a shade tree mechanic, I did plugs on my WRX for the first time ever in about 2 hours, with no previous experience on a Subaru, or any car ever for that matter. It was kind of a bitch, but I certainly didn't get the engine out of the car. You had to first remove the stock intake snorkel and airbox for the passenger side (maybe move the power steering reservoir too); the driver's side required removing the windshield washer reservoir (larger on my wagon than on the sedans). That's it. Flex head + extension, done.

I specified a Subaru mechanic because then the time would be around 30 minutes to swap plugs. Any mechanic can do it, but someone familiar with boxer motors could do it much quicker the first time. Obviously each time you would get faster if it was indeed your first time. It took me a bit over an hour the first time I did it, but I did it on my car 3 times and on other Subaru, making the task easier each time. I wasn't trying to insult others, just saying how easy and quick and can be if you have experience with them.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Sleeperz

Does anyone put antiseize on the sparkplug threads before putting them back on?

I do. I know people who don't. It's worth it so the threads don't strip out or heads crack, which is common. Just watch out how much you use, they might back out if you're not careful.

Originally Posted by AZP Installs

On the bugeyes there are no air pumps so they are quicker than the newer ones. It takes about 2hrs with cool down etc to do em on just about any subie.

Ahhh, forgot about the air pumps on newer models.

[FrX]

Originally Posted by Sleeperz

Also a problem of leaving a sparkplug along time in an aluminum head is the threads in the head may strip out when removing. Does anyone put antiseize on the sparkplug threads before putting them back on?

For aluminum heads, I always use anti-seize. Also make sure to torque to the proper values with a torque wrench. Most people end up over-tightening the spark plugs, which can be a bad thing on aluminum heads.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by FrX

For aluminum heads, I always use anti-seize. Also make sure to torque to the proper values with a torque wrench. Most people end up over-tightening the spark plugs, which can be a bad thing on aluminum heads.

Getting a torque wrench in there is a bitch and using a (flex) extension only insures whatever torque you're reading isn't the torque you're torquing. Unless you have a small in-lb torque wrench, I guess.

[Archer1.8]

Welcome to the world of Subaru engines. It always sucked to watch EVO guys change their cams in a couple of hours...a subaru takes a couple of days

[BMWDavid]

Originally Posted by BMWDavid

By now some of you have read the spark plug removal instructions in the service manual.

Yeow! Has this soured anyone on getting a BRZ/FR-S? It has caused me to rethink it a bit. Still waiting for my car to arrive and I'll need to see how I fit in it and give it a quick run down the road before making final decision to buy the car.

But the spark plug issue will be in my mind.

Well I bought the car. Realized that the spark plugs won't need changed for 60,000 miles possibly longer. Might not even have the car then.

Having a blast with it!

[Dustin@Dynosty]

We can confirm removal of number 1 (with just overpipe removed) and number 2 plug can be done with out anything else removed, the frame is wider at the front, the rear gets a little tighter so those are questionable, if I get time I will investigate further. The coils are very flexible at least with only 2,000 miles on them. It is a very tight squeeze, recommend small hands.