Transmission Speculation.

[Dimman]

Some of you out there may have seen already that the transmission to be used is a bit of a concern of mine. This comes from my Supra background and knowing that it's nice to never have to worry about your transmission regardless of the power you throw at it (with the exception of the R154's minor thrust washer issue).

What I've seen thrown around here is that the FR-S will be using the same 6 speed that is used in the Altezza, RX-8, S2000 and MX5. This is the Aisin AZ6. None of those 4 cars are known for massive amounts of torque, which is a bit of a worry to me. However these cars are also ones that I have limited personal experience with and would welcome input from those that have to tells us what you know about their power-handling ability.

But on the other hand there is this:

http://www.aisin-ai.co.jp/english/products/fr.html

I don't know if this list is complete, but no AZ6 on it.

There is however the AY6 which is used in such vehicles as the new IS, Tacoma and FJ Cruiser. All with significantly more torque than the above four. And if Toyota continues its habit of over-building their truck transmissions, I will be happy.

Thoughts?

[Midship Runabout]

Originally Posted by Dimman

What I've seen thrown around here is that the FR-S will be using the same 6 speed that is used in the Altezza, RX-8, S2000 and MX5. This is the Aisin AZ6. None of those 4 cars are known for massive amounts of torque, which is a bit of a worry to me.

If you are expecting massive amounts of torque you are going to be disappointed. This car isnt a Supra. The cars you mentioned were designed for agility and not power. Like the ft86 will be. (I refuse to call it FR-S until official announcement)

My .02

[ichitaka05]

Gotta agree with Dixie on this one. Boxer engine have/can get goo tq out of it, but my guess is, it won't have high tq like Supra or Skyline which mean it doesn't need to have Supra or Skyline tranny.

I, myself don't have much knowledge on this part, but I don't hear much problem with Altezza, Rx-8, S2k or Mx-5 having tranny problems, but more of rear axle & diff problem more.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Dixie Normous

If you are expecting massive amounts of torque you are going to be disappointed. This car isnt a Supra. The cars you mentioned were designed for agility and not power. Like the ft86 will be. (I refuse to call it FR-S until official announcement)

My .02

It's not the amount of torque that it starts with, it's what it's going to end up with.

If it can handle 400 lb-ft to the wheels without looking for a new drivetrain I will be happy. (don't care if it comes from the factory with a turbo or not, mine's going to get boosted)

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Dimman

It's not the amount of torque that it starts with, it's what it's going to end up with.

If it can handle 400 lb-ft to the wheels without looking for a new drivetrain I will be happy. (don't care if it comes from the factory with a turbo or not, mine's going to get boosted)

Then, I'm pretty sure some after market company will make a parts to stiffen up the drivetrain (just like S2k).

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Then, I'm pretty sure some after market company will make a parts to stiffen up the drivetrain (just like S2k).

What are the weak points on the S2000? You said axles and diff, but do you know at what power levels? And under what conditions (drag launch with slicks, road racing, etc...)?

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Dimman

What are the weak points on the S2000? You said axles and diff, but do you know at what power levels? And under what conditions (drag launch with slicks, road racing, etc...)?

My friend said, Diff is the first one that breaks when you boost the S2k... and next is axle, but he said that he takes a lot more. In the full launch condition in any (drag or road). I'm guessing, more on drag w slick cuz it'll put more work

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

My friend said, Diff is the first one that breaks when you boost the S2k... and next is axle, but he said that he takes a lot more. In the full launch condition in any (drag or road). I'm guessing, more on drag w slick cuz it'll put more work

But transmission it solid? Good. Diff and axles are cheaper to upgrade than transmission. (How much power when it started breaking stuff?)

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Dimman

But transmission it solid? Good. Diff and axles are cheaper to upgrade than transmission. (How much power when it started breaking stuff?)

He claim that 600hp will break the tranny & diff & axle 400hp.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

He claim that 600hp will break the tranny & diff & axle 400hp.

Local shop found the limit of the Civic Si's 6 speed was about 535 whp with drag launch on slicks. Kept shearing off the teeth on second gear. I was at the track when they tore up their first transmission.

http://www.racinggreed.com/index.php...ect&sub=detail

I would anticipate that 400 bhp would make the FR-S a good, street-able rocket, depending on final weight.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Local shop found the limit of the Civic Si's 6 speed was about 535 whp with drag launch on slicks. Kept shearing off the teeth on second gear. I was at the track when they tore up their first transmission.

http://www.racinggreed.com/index.php...ect&sub=detail

I would anticipate that 400 bhp would make the FR-S a good, street-able rocket, depending on final weight.

Hm... If it tune this car into turbo, I think 300~350bhp would be street hp for this car (for me anyways). If it goes more than that, I think it's gonna be pain-in-the-ass to maintain it.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Hm... If it tune this car into turbo, I think 300~350bhp would be street hp for this car (for me anyways). If it goes more than that, I think it's gonna be pain-in-the-ass to maintain it.

I was thinking of a tuned target for myself. May need an engine swap, and definately won't happen right away, but 400 hp (I think 350 to the wheels) with good boost response/driveability will be my goal.

[Midship Runabout]

^ should be plenty of power if it stays low weight.

[Midship Runabout]

Double post fail

[NESW20]

i'm sure it'll be fine for me since 1) it's gonna be n/a from Toyota 2) i won't turbo mine

[Dimman]

Anyone out there running a manual 6 speed in an IS250 care to comment on the transmission? Potentially what this car may end up with.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Anyone out there running a manual 6 speed in an IS250 care to comment on the transmission? Potentially what this car may end up with.

Isn't Dark own IS250? Not sure it's AT or MT... but I remember seeing on this info.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Isn't Dark own IS250? Not sure it's AT or MT... but I remember seeing on this info.

His says IS250 AWD, they are only 6 speed auto I think.

(That thing still an Altezza in Japan?)

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Dimman

His says IS250 AWD, they are only 6 speed auto I think.

(That thing still an Altezza in Japan?)

Oh I see, well IDK who else has IS series.
Nope, it became IS series after the first gen.

[nate89]

The altezzas (is300) had a problem with their manual transmission. I'm not sure about max figures, but I know people said the transmissions real jerky and hard the drive. Most said they wished they had the auto if they would've known.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by nate89

The altezzas (is300) had a problem with their manual transmission. I'm not sure about max figures, but I know people said the transmissions real jerky and hard the drive. Most said they wished they had the auto if they would've known.

Is that the Altezza/IS200 6speed (With the BEAMS 3SGE) or the IS300 5 speed (VVT-i 2JZGE)? The 2JZGE powered one had the W58 5 speed shared with the non-turbo Supras, nothing special maybe good for 300 lb-ft.

Don't know anything about the 6 speed except from what I've heard here that it's the same (or same family?) as the ones in the RX-8, Miata and S2000.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by nate89

The altezzas (is300) had a problem with their manual transmission. I'm not sure about max figures, but I know people said the transmissions real jerky and hard the drive. Most said they wished they had the auto if they would've known.

I've texted around to see about this fact... and it's nothing to do with tranny. Actually the oem clutch is the main problem and not the actual tranny. When people tune their engine some of them forget the upgrade the clutch. Oem clutch Lexus use cannot handle after certain hp (they said is250: 260~300, is350 turbo it) and it start to slip like crazy.

Originally Posted by Dimman

Is that the Altezza/IS200 6speed (With the BEAMS 3SGE) or the IS300 5 speed (VVT-i 2JZGE)? The 2JZGE powered one had the W58 5 speed shared with the non-turbo Supras, nothing special maybe good for 300 lb-ft.

Don't know anything about the 6 speed except from what I've heard here that it's the same (or same family?) as the ones in the RX-8, Miata and S2000.

Yeah, Altezza's 5sp is using Supra's W58 tranny. I'm trying to remember 6sp is... but I can't remember

I know the IS250 tranny code is A960E and A760E.