BRZ vs Mustang - Here is the review the haters have been waiting for.

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by MotoChris98

LOVE Gotta Have it Green!!! Looks so much better in person than in photos, it's a hard color to take an accurate pic of. Looks especially good on Boss.

If I haven't said it before, I'll say it now. God damn you. I want your garage damnit

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

It's a similar reason I'm choosing not to lease another Audi S4. The S4 has BLISTERING performance compared to the BRZ. I mean, absolutely incredible. They dyno stock at 330AWHP, 3hp less than what Audi rates it at the flywheel. 0-60 in 4.9sec and an electronically limited top speed of 155mph. (I'm also paying about the same monthly payment as I would the BRZ, but I work for Audi so you wouldn't get the same deal, sorry) But it's a big 3700lb saloon that with gobs of power, all-wheel-drive, and massive grippy tires, practically drives itself. Sure it's fun, but I feel disconnected and I want something with more driver involvement to develop my skills with.

Yeah that's similar to how I felt about my STI. Gone now.

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by NickDude84

is it me or did the mustang beat up the brz. from the comments you would think the mustang lost the race. i was expecting the mustang to beat it in a 1/4 mile but on the track, wow what a disappointment. do you guys realize what 1.5 seconds on a racetrack is? that's a couple car lengths if not a couple turns ahead.

and i was looking at truecar.com and a stock v6 mustang with the performance package is 23k. now the premium v6 that comes with leather seats and such with the performance package is 28k so its a pretty good bargain. i never considered the mustang but that v6 stang is pretty bad ass. and i also think the u can get brembos on the stang.

idk i really want to test drive the fr-s but the stang looks like a nice option.

What will you be using the car for? If all that matters to you is "my car beat your car on a youtube video race" go for the stang. Very few people have a legitimate use for a car that sets fast lap times on a track, and I would guess none of those people buy a V6 Mustang.

Originally Posted by Turbowned

It's a similar reason I'm choosing not to lease another Audi S4. The S4 has BLISTERING performance compared to the BRZ. I mean, absolutely incredible. They dyno stock at 330AWHP, 3hp less than what Audi rates it at the flywheel. 0-60 in 4.9sec and an electronically limited top speed of 155mph. (I'm also paying about the same monthly payment as I would the BRZ, but I work for Audi so you wouldn't get the same deal, sorry) But it's a big 3700lb saloon that with gobs of power, all-wheel-drive, and massive grippy tires, practically drives itself. Sure it's fun, but I feel disconnected and I want something with more driver involvement to develop my skills with.

This is how I feel about my WRX as well. I thought the WRX was awesome until I started go karting. It was like night and day going from the awesome handling of the karts into the huge slow steering WRX. It made me realize the appeal of a small great handling car, even if it doesn't have great all out speed.

[KevinDuMa]

The BRZ is such a sweet heart. Good video.

[SaulGood3]

Having driven this course a lot I'm not surprised at who beat who but the actual times that were run on this course be it stang or brz. To be able to run 1:30 on this course with weak tires is a feat. And for a V6 stang to run in the1:2x's is crazy. I think that is what people are missing since road courses aren't a universal baseline like 0-60, 1/4mile times.

[NickDude84]

ok Spaceywilly and that is y i was surprised that the mustang won the race. i would have never thought the mustang would win in what the brz is supposed to dominate. what this video has shown us if you are going to buy a car to race at willow springs stock get the mustang its 1.5 seconds faster.

so ok lets say you are buying this car to take to the track and you are running in some sort of stock spec class this mustang v6 will beat the brz. now if your buying a car to be sporty, comfortable, and roomy you wouldn't get the brz. so what is the advantage of this car? i am not objecting to what these cars were built for i really like the fr-s and i am seriously considering buying one, but i am surprised that it lost against a v6 mustang.

this video showed that the brz/fr-s is slow. i love they way they look and the price is right for me but their is competition from other sources. just wait for the brz/fr-s genesis coup comparison, it would probably be the same. you cannot escape the low torque numbers. those are the most damming numbers.

this is not just car x beat car y its truly shocking that a mundane rental car like a v6 stang with no modification beat the brz in its home turf the track. although i agree that the test driver seemed to like the brz more than the stang its still shocking that everyone on this board seems to gloss over the fact that it lost.

[Spaceywilly]

yes, it is slow and it is fun. That is the point. The point is not to beat Mustang V6's around a track. This video shows how the drivers prefer the slower BRZ to the Mustang V6, which I thought would shut up everyone who keeps saying "who would buy this when it's slower than a Mustang V6?!?!" I guess it will take more than this.

[blu_]

To drive?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by NickDude84

ok Spaceywilly and that is y i was surprised that the mustang won the race. i would have never thought the mustang would win in what the brz is supposed to dominate. what this video has shown us if you are going to buy a car to race at willow springs stock get the mustang its 1.5 seconds faster.

so ok lets say you are buying this car to take to the track and you are running in some sort of stock spec class this mustang v6 will beat the brz. now if your buying a car to be sporty, comfortable, and roomy you wouldn't get the brz. so what is the advantage of this car? i am not objecting to what these cars were built for i really like the fr-s and i am seriously considering buying one, but i am surprised that it lost against a v6 mustang.

this video showed that the brz/fr-s is slow. i love they way they look and the price is right for me but their is competition from other sources. just wait for the brz/fr-s genesis coup comparison, it would probably be the same. you cannot escape the low torque numbers. those are the most damming numbers.

this is not just car x beat car y its truly shocking that a mundane rental car like a v6 stang with no modification beat the brz in its home turf the track. although i agree that the test driver seemed to like the brz more than the stang its still shocking that everyone on this board seems to gloss over the fact that it lost.

If you're purely a numbers guy (0-60, 1/4 mile, track times, slalom, etc.), then you won't like the BRZ. But if you're looking for a pure sports car (low, lightweight) that's rewarding to drive and couldn't care less about numbers, you'll love the BRZ.

The BRZ is not a numbers car. Neither is the Miata. But for some people (including the reviewer and Randy Pobst apparently), these are the most rewarding types of cars to drive under $30k.

If none of that makes sense to you, don't worry about it. Everyone's built differently and there's nothing wrong with that.

[NickDude84]

i am not a numbers guy they are irrelevant to me, but to dismiss this cars lack of power is stupid to me. what this video showed is their is a lot of competition for the 25-30k rwd 2+2 sports car. i really want to drive the fr-s and make up my own opinion. because what fun to me is when you hit the gas and the car throws you into the back of your seat and when you steer the car it goes where y want. that is all nothing fancy just an awesome driving experience is what i want in my next car. everything else is garbage, but this has shown that their is more than one option and its going to be fun when i go to buy my next car.

[SVTSHC]

The 86 handles like a dream on Prius tires, the 86 feels amazing and has put a smile on every face that's ever sat inside it. Hell I was ear to ear grinning at the auto show just from the driving position. The stock performance of this car isn't what interested me, it could be slower than a base model civic for all I care.

As much as I love mustangs (and I mean LOVE mustangs), you can make the 86 faster. You can't make the mustang feel like less of a rocket propelled tank.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by NickDude84

i am not a numbers guy they are irrelevant to me, but to dismiss this cars lack of power is stupid to me. what this video showed is their is a lot of competition for the 25-30k rwd 2+2 sports car. i really want to drive the fr-s and make up my own opinion. because what fun to me is when you hit the gas and the car throws you into the back of your seat and when you steer the car it goes where y want. that is all nothing fancy just an awesome driving experience is what i want in my next car. everything else is garbage, but this has shown that their is more than one option and its going to be fun when i go to buy my next car.

Find a leftover 2012 Mustang GT for under $30k. That car will throw you into your seat like no other car in this price range, and it will go where you point it

[mkxr]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

yes, it is slow and it is fun. That is the point. The point is not to beat Mustang V6's around a track. This video shows how the drivers prefer the slower BRZ to the Mustang V6, which I thought would shut up everyone who keeps saying "who would buy this when it's slower than a Mustang V6?!?!" I guess it will take more than this.

Well said, although argument could be made that the brz with the same rubber could match, if not out-run, the mustang on that course.

On the side note, 'acura vtec' - now that's funny.

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by NickDude84

i am not a numbers guy they are irrelevant to me, but to dismiss this cars lack of power is stupid to me. what this video showed is their is a lot of competition for the 25-30k rwd 2+2 sports car. i really want to drive the fr-s and make up my own opinion. because what fun to me is when you hit the gas and the car throws you into the back of your seat and when you steer the car it goes where y want. that is all nothing fancy just an awesome driving experience is what i want in my next car. everything else is garbage, but this has shown that their is more than one option and its going to be fun when i go to buy my next car.

Everyone's idea of what makes the perfect car is different, and it's fine if you just want to go fast. There is certainly something to be said for having a ton of power at your control, however I have been down that road with my WRX and while it's great, to me it doesn't hold a candle to car that really involves you in the driving experience and provides a constant stream of feedback as to what's going on under the tires. It is hard to get this across in words or videos, it is really something you have to experience to have that revelation that a slow car can be way more fun than a fast car. The ultimate example of this to me is a go kart, which only goes 50mph flat out, but beats the pants off my WRX in terms of fun. The only car I've driven that has come close to replicating the go kart experience in a street car is the Mini Cooper S, and I think the BRZ will be even better than that.

[slizoth]

Good video review, still half way skeptical that the BRZ will be worth it's price tag when I could just get a WRX but I have no doubt its amazingly enjoyable to drive.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by NickDude84

ok Spaceywilly and that is y i was surprised that the mustang won the race. i would have never thought the mustang would win in what the brz is supposed to dominate. what this video has shown us if you are going to buy a car to race at willow springs stock get the mustang its 1.5 seconds faster.

so ok lets say you are buying this car to take to the track and you are running in some sort of stock spec class this mustang v6 will beat the brz. now if your buying a car to be sporty, comfortable, and roomy you wouldn't get the brz. so what is the advantage of this car? i am not objecting to what these cars were built for i really like the fr-s and i am seriously considering buying one, but i am surprised that it lost against a v6 mustang.

this video showed that the brz/fr-s is slow. i love they way they look and the price is right for me but their is competition from other sources. just wait for the brz/fr-s genesis coup comparison, it would probably be the same. you cannot escape the low torque numbers. those are the most damming numbers.

this is not just car x beat car y its truly shocking that a mundane rental car like a v6 stang with no modification beat the brz in its home turf the track. although i agree that the test driver seemed to like the brz more than the stang its still shocking that everyone on this board seems to gloss over the fact that it lost.

apparently you have never been to a track before...
and dont know how tires can affect you lap times...

people post .5 seconds faster at least cold tires vs warmed up tires...
2-3 seconds faster crap tires vs r-comp...
since you are a number's guy

mustang(with base trim tires)
Lateral acceleration 0.88 g (avg)
MT figure eight 26.0 sec @ 0.67 g (avg)

FRS
Lateral acceleration 0.93 g (avg)
MT figure eight 25.9 sec @ 0.67 g (avg)

heres more numbers for you...

set of track package tires for mustang(the ones that are on the head 2 head video)
$1400

set of better tires for the brz that will probably post equal times to the mustang around streets of willow

$500

that means you can go to the track almost 3 times as many times with the brz vs mustang and post very very similar times

ok randy is a VERY good driver and the mustang isnt exactly the easiest car to drive fast, well not compared to the brz/frs/gt86 for that matter

around a track the brz wins collectively
1. cheaper to run(brakes,tires,less oil)
2. will post very similar times to the mustang with a proper set of tires....
3. all your tires,tools, jack will fit in the brz for a track day
4. better gas milage, you will run out of gas after the mustang does(important if you endurance race or if you live more than an hour from the track, making track days possible with 1 tank of gas...)
5. the car is more fun to drive(most important factor, to me at least)
6. no stupid 114 mph rev limiter that the mustang has
7. drive shaft wont explode on me like the mustangs($600 bucks you have to spend on top of the car as soon as you buy it, if you want to track it)
8. car weighs less, every performance part you add will get you more power
per lbs
9 the brz has a better manual and automatic transmission(both feel better too)
10 aftermarket support, the brz will have a more competitive aftermarket which means performance parts will have lower prices
11 cheaper to modify: 2 less pistons,2 less rods, 8 less valves, less rings,2 less rod bearings

all in all

built brz 36-37k ($500 for every tire change)
built frs 34-35k
built mustang 40-42k($1400 for every tire change)

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

apparently you have never been to a track before...
and dont know how tires can affect you lap times...

people post .5 seconds faster at least cold tires vs warmed up tires...
2-3 seconds faster crap tires vs r-comp...
since you are a number's guy

mustang(with base trim tires)
Lateral acceleration 0.88 g (avg)
MT figure eight 26.0 sec @ 0.67 g (avg)

FRS
Lateral acceleration 0.93 g (avg)
MT figure eight 25.9 sec @ 0.67 g (avg)

heres more numbers for you...

set of track package tires for mustang(the ones that are on the head 2 head video)
$1400

set of better tires for the brz that will probably post equal times to the mustang around streets of willow

$500

that means you can go to the track almost 3 times as many times with the brz vs mustang and post very very similar times

ok randy is a VERY good driver and the mustang isnt exactly the easiest car to drive fast, well not compared to the brz/frs/gt86 for that matter

around a track the brz wins collectively
1. cheaper to run(brakes,tires,less oil)
2. will post very similar times to the mustang with a proper set of tires....
3. all your tires,tools, jack will fit in the brz for a track day
4. better gas milage, you will run out of gas after the mustang does(important if you endurance race or if you live more than an hour from the track, making track days possible with 1 tank of gas...)
5. the car is more fun to drive(most important factor, to me at least)
6. no stupid 114 mph rev limiter that the mustang has
7. drive shaft wont explode on me like the mustangs($600 bucks you have to spend on top of the car as soon as you buy it, if you want to track it)
8. car weighs less, every performance part you add will get you more power
per lbs
9 the brz has a better manual and automatic transmission(both feel better too)
10 aftermarket support, the brz will have a more competitive aftermarket which means performance parts will have lower prices
11 cheaper to modify: 2 less pistons,2 less rods, 8 less valves, less rings,2 less rod bearings

all in all

built brz 36-37k ($500 for every tire change)
built frs 34-35k
built mustang 40-42k($1400 for every tire change)

I bolded a few things that are either untrue or you can't say for sure at the moment.

1) First thing is the V6 mustang actually gets better gas mileage than the FRS/BRZ
2)The limiter is removable and the driveshaft is very cheap to replace. If you're going to spend money then it's technically one of the cheapest highest performance yielding modifications you can make to the v6 stang. And truthfully unless you've got an ungodly long stretch on the track you won't be spending much time red lining it at 115 anyway.
3) HP isn't linear across all vehicles. Example, a full exhaust on the BRZ/FRS will net you less than it would on the stang. Reason being, not only does the BRZ/FRS already come with headers whereas the mustang doesn't, but for all we know you could see some considerable gains from the mustangs exhaust. (If there's one thing I've noticed about every Ford I've owned and modified it's that the name of the game with factory Fords is exhaust restriction )
4) Both aftermarkets will be huge. The mustang is an iconic vehicle with an incredibly large aftermarket, I have no doubt the BRZ/FRS will have a large aftermarket also. As for which one will be bigger, only time will tell.
5) You can't say for sure the FRS/BRZ will be cheaper to modify simply because it has two less cylinders. You're forgetting that Ford is a domestic brand, already giving it a cost advantage in America.
6) Last but not least, I'm not understanding where you got your "built cost" estimations from. Stock for stock the V6 and the BRZ are roughly the same price (track pack included), and just as a point of reference a Ford Racing Supercharger kit for the GT (I know it's not a V6 but hear me out) is $6k from FORD; meaning it's likely to be cheaper from Kenne or Jackson Racing. So I can't see a smaller blower or turbo costing equal or more than the GT. What I'm trying to say is I feel like you've exaggerated the modification costs of the V6. Domestics are notoriously cheap to modify, hell my brother built his old 10sec foxbody for under 5k.



Also, I don't get what's up with #3, the same thing is true for the stang (O.o).

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

1) First thing is the V6 mustang actually gets better gas mileage than the FRS/BRZ

EPA ratings for manual trans cars:
FR-S/BRZ = 22 city/30 hwy/25 combined
V6 Mustang = 19 city/29 hwy/ 22 combined

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

all in all

built brz 36-37k ($500 for every tire change)
built frs 34-35k
built mustang 40-42k($1400 for every tire change)

Wholly crap you don't like the Mustang. Great. Fine.
But where the hell are you pulling these numbers from?
Seriously, can you put it in a table or something. You've obviously gone top end and every last thing needed for the Mustang and gone cheapo tyres for the BRZ/FRS. It is simple enough to at least pick the same replacement tyres for them, that is a dead easy one to rationalise.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

I bolded a few things that are either untrue or you can't say for sure at the moment.

1) First thing is the V6 mustang actually gets better gas mileage than the FRS/BRZ
mustang 19 city
brz 22 city
brz gets better gas milage...
2)The limiter is removable and the driveshaft is very cheap to replace. If you're going to spend money then it's a technically one of the cheapest highest performance yielding modifications you can make to the v6 stang. And truthfully unless you've got an ungodly long stretch on the track you won't be spending much time red lining it at 115 anyway.
a new drive shaft doesnt increase hp, it may release 1-2 hp because of less rotational mass... still a 600 dollar part..
3) HP isn't linear across all vehicles. Example, a full exhaust on the BRZ/FRS will net you less than it would on the stang. Reason being, not only does the BRZ/FRS already come with headers whereas the mustang doesn't, but for all we know you could see some considerable gains from the mustangs exhaust. (If there's one thing I've noticed about every Ford I've owned and modified it's that the name of the game with factory Fords is exhaust restriction )
lets say the brz gets a 6hp gain from a cold air intake and the mustang gets a 6 hp gain, the brz will get more out of the gain because its lighter weight, these are example numbers and not actual numbers
4) Both aftermarkets will be huge. The mustang is an iconic vehicle with an incredibly large aftermarket, I have no doubt the BRZ/FRS will have a large aftermarket also. As for which one will be bigger, only time will tell.
i still see the brz aftermarket being larger in a couple years...but with the mustang getting better, yeah i guess they will be the same(edit)
5) You can't say for sure the FRS/BRZ will be cheaper to modify simply because it has two less cylinders. You're forgetting that Ford is a domestic brand, already giving it a cost advantage in America.
just because the car is domestic doesnt mean the performance parts are made here...
4 pistons will always cost less than 6 pistons of the same quality
16 valves will always cost less than 24 valves of the same quality
suspension parts will always last longer on lighter cars
tires will always last longer on a lighter car
brakes will be cheaper and last longer on lighter cars
6) Last but not least, I'm not understanding where you got your "built cost" estimations from. Stock for stock the V6 and the BRZ are roughly the same price (track pack included), and just as a point of reference a Ford Racing Supercharger kit for the GT (I know it's not a V6 but hear me out) is $6k from FORD; meaning it's likely to be cheaper from Kenne or Jackson Racing. So I can't see a smaller blower or turbo costing equal or more than the GT. What I'm trying to say is I feel like you've exaggerated the modification costs of the V6. Domestics are notoriously cheap to modify, hell my brother built his old 10sec foxbody for under 5k.
trd superchargers go for 4-5k aswell...
yeah that fox body may be able to do 10 second runs... but that fox body is only good for 10 seconds, you couldnt run it all day at a track...
so your brother spent less than 5k on coilovers, headers, exhaust, intake, ecu, tune, rims, and tires, and maybe his 75-150 wet shot...

my friend built his z28 to do 10 second runs with under 2k, the car did 7 runs before he blew the head off the gaskets...

ohh and the built cost includes
brake kit
tires
rollcage
exhaust
headers
brake lines
forged internals
aftermarket ecu
clutch
flywheel
oil pump
baffling oil pan
dry sump



Also, I don't get what's up with #3, the same thing is true for the stang (O.o).

BOLD is what i have to say

so in the mustang you can fit 4 tires and rims and a jack, jack stands tool chest extra brake pads and calipers with you?

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by Capt Canuck

Wholly crap you don't like the Mustang. Great. Fine.
But where the hell are you pulling these numbers from?
Seriously, can you put it in a table or something. You've obviously gone top end and every last thing needed for the Mustang and gone cheapo tyres for the BRZ/FRS. It is simple enough to at least pick the same replacement tyres for them, that is a dead easy one to rationalise.

not that i dont like them, my friend actually owns one and i dont give him crap for owning one

im just saying the brz is more practical than the mustang for track use and every day considering the pricey tires on the mustang, my uncles lambo has 1600 dollar tire changes and they are good tires too!

im just not a fan of the v6 i like the v8 its a very spectacular motor and the boss 302 is a better machine past that, def a good bang for your buck

plus my friend isnt happy his 3.7L is having sludge issues at 25k miles
they had to flush his engine at the dealership because of it(free service which was at least cool )

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

I bolded a few things that are either untrue or you can't say for sure at the moment.

1) First thing is the V6 mustang actually gets better gas mileage than the FRS/BRZ
2)The limiter is removable and the driveshaft is very cheap to replace. If you're going to spend money then it's technically one of the cheapest highest performance yielding modifications you can make to the v6 stang. And truthfully unless you've got an ungodly long stretch on the track you won't be spending much time red lining it at 115 anyway.
3) HP isn't linear across all vehicles. Example, a full exhaust on the BRZ/FRS will net you less than it would on the stang. Reason being, not only does the BRZ/FRS already come with headers whereas the mustang doesn't, but for all we know you could see some considerable gains from the mustangs exhaust. (If there's one thing I've noticed about every Ford I've owned and modified it's that the name of the game with factory Fords is exhaust restriction )
4) Both aftermarkets will be huge. The mustang is an iconic vehicle with an incredibly large aftermarket, I have no doubt the BRZ/FRS will have a large aftermarket also. As for which one will be bigger, only time will tell.
5) You can't say for sure the FRS/BRZ will be cheaper to modify simply because it has two less cylinders. You're forgetting that Ford is a domestic brand, already giving it a cost advantage in America.
6) Last but not least, I'm not understanding where you got your "built cost" estimations from. Stock for stock the V6 and the BRZ are roughly the same price (track pack included), and just as a point of reference a Ford Racing Supercharger kit for the GT (I know it's not a V6 but hear me out) is $6k from FORD; meaning it's likely to be cheaper from Kenne or Jackson Racing. So I can't see a smaller blower or turbo costing equal or more than the GT. What I'm trying to say is I feel like you've exaggerated the modification costs of the V6. Domestics are notoriously cheap to modify, hell my brother built his old 10sec foxbody for under 5k.



Also, I don't get what's up with #3, the same thing is true for the stang (O.o).

nope.avi - YouTube