BRZ comes last in EVO group test

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by Rampage

If there are lessons here at all they are:

2. Toyota and Subaru overpriced the car and therefore put it within comparison range of some very good performance machines.

Not sure how this follows from this or any other reviews we saw so far.
Please name a few of those "very good performance machines" you can get new.

[Buggy51]

Hmmm I'm just reading this quote: "It reminds me not of a junior M3 or slightly more grown up MX-5, but a Porsche Cayman. Similar unshakeable composure and poise."

I'm very unlikely to use the care to go sideways or on a track, so most of the points seem more negligible to me. But isn't it good to have that feeling of composure?

[brzmaybe]

Originally Posted by bneale

I like EVO mag and all, but I think they got some of the priorities slightly wrong with this article.

bneale

If you trust John Barker on the track, then I'm afraid that EVO got it right.

When Motor Trend drove a preproduction BRZ on the track in Japan they wrote:

"That is not to say push is entirely absent. Apparently, for safety reasons, understeer is the default condition when you get sloppy. It's easy to induce through early turn-in, which causes the front outside tire to roll over and howl unhappily as the nose plows."

Eerily similar reporting from two different publications, testing on two tracks on opposite sides of the world.

There's enough bad news from enough credible testers to make me wait to drive both cars before I buy, and wait for head-to-head Subaru/Toyota comparisons.

For now, my money's in my wallet where it belongs.

[touge-n00b]

Originally Posted by bneale

Not sure if Chris Harris was part of this test group or not but I suspect he wasn't.

Chris Harris no longer writes/reviews for EVO, and that's a big reason why EVO scooped up Tiff Needell.

As far as I know, he know contributes to PistonHeads, as well as his own show on the Drive YouTube network.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Buggy51

Hmmm I'm just reading this quote: "It reminds me not of a junior M3 or slightly more grown up MX-5, but a Porsche Cayman. Similar unshakeable composure and poise."

I'm very unlikely to use the care to go sideways or on a track, so most of the points seem more negligible to me. But isn't it good to have that feeling of composure?

i think the issue is that it seems that the car needs to be pushed in order to wake up. the m3, cayman and miata are all good cars imo but the miata is the car that is fun to run errands or just be stuck in traffic.

i appreciate being fun at 100% but in reality we spend most of our time on the street where im more likely at a much lower fraction of my abilities. the miata is fun as fast as it goes (which isnt very fast) but it is remarkable because it is fun at much more pedestrian speeds too. sounds like the brz fails in that dept

[SupremeMoFo]

Originally Posted by stateless

Next they should review a manual BRZ versus automatics of the other cars, and maybe throw in a 10-speed bicycle for good measure. If an auto is all Subaru would give them, why not review it on its own instead of making a comparison, or compare it with other automatics. They probably still wouldn't like the BRZ but at least it would have some meaning.

The Megane doesn't come in an automatic at all... heh.

[Buggy51]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i think the issue is that it seems that the car needs to be pushed in order to wake up. the m3, cayman and miata are all good cars imo but the miata is the car that is fun to run errands or just be stuck in traffic.

i appreciate being fun at 100% but in reality we spend most of our time on the street where im more likely at a much lower fraction of my abilities. the miata is fun as fast as it goes (which isnt very fast) but it is remarkable because it is fun at much more pedestrian speeds too. sounds like the brz fails in that dept

At the same time, isn't it bad to feel fun at 100% of the time? Lol, I hate to say it, but humans are incredibly adaptive and you tend to tune things out (hell, look at any new shiny toy >_> tends to be less awesome three months down the road). But no, you may be right that the miata is more fun. From my perspective, I'm thinking that stability and confidence is always a good thing so that's why I'm having a disconnect. Dunno, I don't see Evo's review as bad. Not stellar, but not bad? Dunno.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Buggy51

At the same time, isn't it bad to feel fun at 100% of the time? Lol, I hate to say it, but humans are incredibly adaptive and you tend to tune things out (hell, look at any new shiny toy >_> tends to be less awesome three months down the road). But no, you may be right that the miata is more fun. From my perspective, I'm thinking that stability and confidence is always a good thing so that's why I'm having a disconnect. Dunno, I don't see Evo's review as bad. Not stellar, but not bad? Dunno.

I choose to interpret this way. With top quality rubber this thing will be a grip monster.With some suspension tuning, even more so.

And having massive mechanical grip will allow it to handle a significant power bump in the future.

Plus with the safe tuning keep in mind what could happen to a Subaru driver coming from a pushy awd WRX/STI to a responsive, loose rwd BRZ...

[Vracer111]

I like EVO magazine and I found the article pretty interesting actually...the car that they noted as technically the best handling on road was labeled the worst because it wasn't as fun as the others (subjective views) or specifically as powerful as the Megane (which is basically in between a 2012 WRX and 2012 STi for torque level and @ 3000rpm too!)...interesting. This article even more solidifies my desire to get one (a Scion FR-S though) because looking at what they actually say about its handling, it seems to be exactly what I was wanting - a surefooted, communicative and responsive chassis that stays absolutely planted until you surpass the tires limits, which are comparatively high. If I want sideways fun at low speed I have my Tacoma...it's nearly as fun as a miata and way more practical.

I'm used to and actually prefer 'gutless' cars that you have to rev to get going and that 80mph feels 'fast'... an powerful car would just get me into trouble. I have enough conscious effort spent trying to keep my Tacoma at sane speeds as it is, I'm even running with all season low-grip tires and removed all the anti-roll bars on purpose. Even so it has no issue taking cloverleafs at above highway speeds or decreasing radius elevated highway bypass ramps @ well over interstate speeds. Not even considering power upgrades for the FR-S other than intake/exhaust (more for throttle response purposes than power concerns) - the 'wimpy' 2.0L base powerplant is more than adequate to accelerate to triple digits on on-ramps... which I really do not want to be doing!

[pizzahead20]

all this interpretation and analysis of the the evo review and other reviews is pointless if you ask me. Yes those reviews should be considered, but in the end you are the one driving the car everyday. Go test drive the brz/frs yourself. Then go test drive the comparable cars that you are considering. Whichever you think drives the best and fits your needs and can put the smile on your face like the 86 did on Chris Harris' is the car that you should get imo.

[uspspro]

I still cant wait to get mine. I plan on it being a grip machine anyway.

AD08, star specs or RE11, dial in some negative camber up front.

Later on.... Rotrex SC

[MmmHamSandwich]

A chassis that is wanting of power is not the end of the world folks. I've got a Civic Si, most of my peers spend great sums of money into giving the thing more power, beyond what the car can reasonably handle. The BRZ should comfortably grow into power increases, and because it is so light, those increase won't have to be particularly great to start having effects.

Would substantially more power from the factory be nice, sure, but the BRZ would likely end priced above the other cars in this article. Let's face it, that is not Subaru's market. Subaru wants people to draw comparisons with the Cayman not compete against it in the market.

Add to the fact that since this is the latest inexpensive RWD tuner car marketed toward young buyers, many future owners will be migrating from FWD and AWD platforms. Taking it easy on the power for the first year or so isn't terrible.

The car is relatively inexpensive and seems to be shaping up to be a good platform for modification. Given this thing is being sold in near identical form in almost every region across the world, aftermarket support should not only be strong but also diverse.

I'm not worried, it will be my first RWD car and indications are it will grow with me for quite a while, longer than the Civic that's for sure.

[carbonBLUE]

i love how they cornered at the same speed brz wearing low friction eco tires and the other wearing race tires... says a lot about mechanical grip to me

[armythug]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

This just reaffirms my plans to supercharge the car and put stickier tires on. All of the problems mentioned in the article will be solved!

Yea mate what I got from the article is that the BRZ isnt a bad car at all. They were wanting/hoping for more power. Makes the second and third waves of the twins more desirable imo.

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by Vracer111

I like EVO magazine and I found the article pretty interesting actually...the car that they noted as technically the best handling on road was labeled the worst because it wasn't as fun as the others (subjective views) or specifically as powerful as the Megane (which is basically in between a 2012 WRX and 2012 STi for torque level and @ 3000rpm too!)...interesting. This article even more solidifies my desire to get one (a Scion FR-S though) because looking at what they actually say about its handling, it seems to be exactly what I was wanting - a surefooted, communicative and responsive chassis that stays absolutely planted until you surpass the tires limits, which are comparatively high. If I want sideways fun at low speed I have my Tacoma...it's nearly as fun as a miata and way more practical.

I'm used to and actually prefer 'gutless' cars that you have to rev to get going and that 80mph feels 'fast'... an powerful car would just get me into trouble. I have enough conscious effort spent trying to keep my Tacoma at sane speeds as it is, I'm even running with all season low-grip tires and removed all the anti-roll bars on purpose. Even so it has no issue taking cloverleafs at above highway speeds or decreasing radius elevated highway bypass ramps @ well over interstate speeds. Not even considering power upgrades for the FR-S other than intake/exhaust (more for throttle response purposes than power concerns) - the 'wimpy' 2.0L base powerplant is more than adequate to accelerate to triple digits on on-ramps... which I really do not want to be doing!

I know what you mean but I'm not so sure I will like it. For example, I remember when I drove an S2000, when I put the pedal to the floor I felt like I was going nowhere and it was boring but before I knew it, I was actually going way too fast! In comparison, my Eclipse pushes me back in the seat at nearly any RPM and it feels like I'm going very fast but it's really just moderate acceleration. People who ride with me without seeing the speedometer think I'm speeding but I'm only accelerating to around the speed limit.

So yeah, to me, what is fun is the feel of power without too much actual speed. And that is essentially torque. Another 30 lbs ft of torque in this thing would be perfect I think.

[brianbot5000]

The comparisons are totally wrong. 370z has loads more power and costs significantly more. Not even in the same class, on multiple levels.

Also, there's a lot to be said about liking all of the other non-performance aspects of a car - the looks, the brand, etc.

That said, I'll certainly be keeping my eyes open for a TRD supercharger, or a 2-3 year model refresh with a power boost.

[Subaruwrxfan]

Originally Posted by brianbot5000

That said, I'll certainly be keeping my eyes open for a TRD supercharger, or a 2-3 year model refresh with a power boost.

Same. I've been thinking that I might like to get the convertible version when it comes out in 2-3 years if they don't add too much weight, maybe it'll have a power boost by then.

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

Not sure how this follows from this or any other reviews we saw so far.
Please name a few of those "very good performance machines" you can get new.

Don't forget that EVO is a UK mag and uses UK prices. The BRZ should be north of £25k and they targeted sub £30k for the article.
That gets you every hot hatch, Lotus Elise, 125i M Sport, 370Z, Ginetta G40 (assuming they are genuinely selling them)... surely some others as well.

We're very fortunate in North America they have given it a much keener price

[cossey]

As someone coming from the previous generation Renaultsport Megane it doesn't make pleasant reading. The group test participants are the obvious for the UK market with the only other possible car being the Elise 1.6.

Hot hatches are the default performance car over here and with the normal discounts you can get on a Renault you could have the 265 with the cup pack and the Recaros for under £25k leaving more than enough for a remap (taking it to ~315Bhp) a spare set of track wheels and tyres and a couple of track days for less than a GT86/BRZ.

The auto box is entire Subaru's mistake, especially as Evo are probalby the most driver orientated European car magazine (with the possible exception of Sport Auto). Hopefully the longer ratios were a big part of the difficulty in keeping in the zone but I doubt it.

I have a manual GT86 coming in June/July so I am a bit worried after putting down a large amount of money without driving one but with the tuning companies getting up to speed it will be fixable just at a cost.

[Levi]

I don't give a f***. The BRZ is best and its all. What are you going to do with a FWD car? Drive straight in to a tree? And what with an open top MX-5? What with the 370Z that is less sporty than a TT-S or Z4 35i? BRZ no doubt. And wait till the turbocahrgers and superchargers come, it will kill anything. It is always easier to add power than to substract weight.

[SupremeMoFo]

Originally Posted by Levi

I don't give a f***. The BRZ is best and its all. What are you going to do with a FWD car? Drive straight in to a tree?

According to that article, you will lap BRZs and have more fun than the BRZ driver as well...

[Lighting Red]

Originally Posted by Subaruwrxfan

Same. I've been thinking that I might like to get the convertible version when it comes out in 2-3 years if they don't add too much weight, maybe it'll have a power boost by then.

It's your choice what you get, and who the hell I'm I to dictate what other people buy, but... Convertible? And ruin what inherently makes this car so desirable? I am cool with a power bump, as long as the increase in mass is within reason, but to buy a fundamentally flawed version of a perfectly good car seems wrong.

Then again, I have never owned a convertible. All those people who do own one may be onto something.