Subaru BRZ and Toyota GT86 twins: not the drifter everyone says they are

[mattles]

^^ I dont know about you, but I dont believe any hype. I drove the car and thats why I am buying. I like the way it drives, I love the transmission, and Im a big fan of its handling ability out of the box.
I dont know how to explain this less hype-y but its a competent as fuck car for the price.

[mines13]

Blah, blah. huff. puff... Just because it does not meet your personal criteria for excellence, it does not make your opinion any more right for choosing not to buy it and others wrong for choosing to buy it. Because we chose to buy the car, it does not mean we are buying "hype", we see the performance/dollar ratio as adequate.

[86'd]

Originally Posted by cassidy0998

I was saying this from the get go. The numbers just don't add up, and there isn't any video of the car truly drifting. It won't be a drift car out of the box.

However...the 86 BADGE on the fender implies that the car is in a drift.

The sad fact is that it is underpowered, heavier, and more expensive than what most of us have hoped for. People are still giving into the hype and not wanting to face the truth about the true performance capabilities of this car. The same people settling for the 200hp probably would have settled for 100hp if Toybaru said that's all the car needs to be a performance machine. We must think for ourselves and not blindly agree with anything the manufacturers put in our faces telling us this is all we need.

I am a fan of the FR-S/BRZ, but I will not buy one for it to be a race car. If I was it would only be as a daily driver, a replacement of the 7th gen fwd Celica. But even then I can not justify the purchase, as it is priced too high for what you get.

I never saw the car in that light.

I always thought of it as a sportier Civic Si. So I'm not let down. Would I like a bit more HP, sure but I think the car makes up for that in other areas. Areas like seating position and a solid shifter for the price.

In no way am I blindly accepting anything. Other than a 20-30hp difference its exactly what I'm looking for. Add another 50hp in an NA engine like this and you're revving to 9k and you'll be paying an S2000 price for it. Put a WRX engine in it and you ruin the purpose and character of the car.

I think it is what it is and no car right now, new, can bring what the FRS/BRZ will.

And I'll eat my words too, if I test drive it and it feels lacking, I might take a look at the WRX, or Mustang GT and see if they'll be anymore fun...but I doubt it.

[denkigrve]

Originally Posted by cassidy0998

I was saying this from the get go. The numbers just don't add up, and there isn't any video of the car truly drifting. It won't be a drift car out of the box.

However...the 86 BADGE on the fender implies that the car is in a drift.

The sad fact is that it is underpowered, heavier, and more expensive than what most of us have hoped for. People are still giving into the hype and not wanting to face the truth about the true performance capabilities of this car. The same people settling for the 200hp probably would have settled for 100hp if Toybaru said that's all the car needs to be a performance machine. We must think for ourselves and not blindly agree with anything the manufacturers put in our faces telling us this is all we need.

I am a fan of the FR-S/BRZ, but I will not buy one for it to be a race car. If I was it would only be as a daily driver, a replacement of the 7th gen fwd Celica. But even then I can not justify the purchase, as it is priced too high for what you get.

Then how do you explain all of the people buying Miata's and auto-crossing them? This is the same thing. Power doesn't equal skill. This car is a fantastic platform to teach someone driving skill, then once they have skill there is plenty of room for upgrades and enhancements to take the platform to the next level. Looking at this car "as is" is wrong if you're considering it for motorsports. Looking at it as a platform that will allow you to grow it along with your skill is the right attitude to take into this type of purchase.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by mines13

Blah, blah. huff. puff... Just because it does not meet your personal criteria for excellence, it does not make your opinion any more right for choosing not to buy it and others wrong for choosing to buy it. Because we chose to buy the car, it does not mean we are buying "hype", we see the performance/dollar ratio as adequate.

+1.

I could agree to some extent that folks were "buying the hype" if there were negative reviews and folks were still buying the car for some reason. But that just isn't the case.

I was 80% before driving the car, I'm totally on board after. Trust me I'm way too cheap to spend 26 large on a car that is all hype.

[blur]

Originally Posted by shaX 07

So here is what we have determined this car is NOT...

This car is not "affordable" as it was once meant to be.
Yea? Show me another FR sports car that costs LESS than $24,200 while having a 6 speed, and LSD.
This car is not fast, and not considered a "drag car" so being slow is OK.
Duh, it's part of the "affordable" plan...
This is not a drift car, so let it go.
Any FR car can drift, and there are tons of reviewers that have drifted this car. Where are you getting this from?
The back seat can fit toddlers at best.
WTF did you expect, the other FR cars in it's weight range don't even have back seats!
The trunk can probably fit your backpack AND your duffle bag!
And with the seats down you can clearly fit a set of wheels, a jack and tools.
The car gets worse MPG than a 505hp Z06 Corvette that weighs 600 pounds more.
"For reference, the car's EPA fuel economy ratings are: 15 mpg (US) city / 24 mpg (US) highway / 18 mpg (US) combined"
How is that better than the FR-S?

You're really making a bad name for Accord owners.

[russv]

Originally Posted by blur

This car is not "affordable" as it was once meant to be.
Yea? Show me another FR sports car that costs LESS than $24,200 while having a 6 speed, and LSD.
This car is not fast, and not considered a "drag car" so being slow is OK.
Duh, it's part of the "affordable" plan...
This is not a drift car, so let it go.
Any FR car can drift, and there are tons of reviewers that have drifted this car. Where are you getting this from?
The back seat can fit toddlers at best.
WTF did you expect, the other FR cars in it's weight range don't even have back seats!
The trunk can probably fit your backpack AND your duffle bag!
And with the seats down you can clearly fit a set of wheels, a jack and tools.
The car gets worse MPG than a 505hp Z06 Corvette that weighs 600 pounds more.
"For reference, the car's EPA fuel economy ratings are: 15 mpg (US) city / 24 mpg (US) highway / 18 mpg (US) combined"
How is that better than the FR-S?

You're really making a bad name for Accord owners.

+1

[titusdrake]

Originally Posted by cassidy0998

I was saying this from the get go. The numbers just don't add up, and there isn't any video of the car truly drifting. It won't be a drift car out of the box.

However...the 86 BADGE on the fender implies that the car is in a drift.

The sad fact is that it is underpowered, heavier, and more expensive than what most of us have hoped for. People are still giving into the hype and not wanting to face the truth about the true performance capabilities of this car. The same people settling for the 200hp probably would have settled for 100hp if Toybaru said that's all the car needs to be a performance machine. We must think for ourselves and not blindly agree with anything the manufacturers put in our faces telling us this is all we need.

I am a fan of the FR-S/BRZ, but I will not buy one for it to be a race car. If I was it would only be as a daily driver, a replacement of the 7th gen fwd Celica. But even then I can not justify the purchase, as it is priced too high for what you get.

just wait until you drive it. The car is priced the way it is because it is QUALITY built. It will run much better and have less if no problems than its competition.. Mustang, camaros and genesis coupes all have major problems.. Fr s they took their time and built it right and it shows. It is also FANFUCKINGTASTIC to drive. I cant wait until i can drive it again and thats how it will be owning one.

While all the other carmakers are playing the "lets see who can get the most power for the least amount of money" game, toyobaru decided to make a quality, reliable, focus on fun and a passion for driving car and it will show in the coming years

[shaX 07]

Originally Posted by titusdrake

a corvette doesn't get 25 MPG LOL...troll

Actually a C5 z06 can achieve 28MPG highway, just do a little bit of research. I know that's difficult for a Toyobaru fanboy but it's very simple.

I love how everybody on this forum who has a hard on for the FR-S/BRZ calls everybody who says something negative (but true) about the cars, a troll. I guess troll is your term for "guy who speaks truths about cars I love".

[russv]

Originally Posted by shaX 07

Actually a C5 z06 can achieve 28MPG highway, just do a little bit of research. I know that's difficult for a Toyobaru fanboy but it's very simple.

I love how everybody on this forum who has a hard on for the FR-S/BRZ calls everybody who says something negative (but true) about the cars, a troll. I guess troll is your term for "guy who speaks truths about cars I love".

Unless you have driven the FRS you can't really make an educated and reasonable negative comment. Perhaps you should be on a Corvette forum instead.

[shaX 07]

Originally Posted by blur

This car is not "affordable" as it was once meant to be.
Yea? Show me another FR sports car that costs LESS than $24,200 while having a 6 speed, and LSD.
This car is not fast, and not considered a "drag car" so being slow is OK.
Duh, it's part of the "affordable" plan...
This is not a drift car, so let it go.
Any FR car can drift, and there are tons of reviewers that have drifted this car. Where are you getting this from?
The back seat can fit toddlers at best.
WTF did you expect, the other FR cars in it's weight range don't even have back seats!
The trunk can probably fit your backpack AND your duffle bag!
And with the seats down you can clearly fit a set of wheels, a jack and tools.
The car gets worse MPG than a 505hp Z06 Corvette that weighs 600 pounds more.
"For reference, the car's EPA fuel economy ratings are: 15 mpg (US) city / 24 mpg (US) highway / 18 mpg (US) combined"
How is that better than the FR-S?

You're really making a bad name for Accord owners.

Oh so sorry man. It is the c5 Z06 Corvette that achieves 28 MPG highway, my bad bro.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...18/142226.html

I know that car ONLY has 405hp so yeah a weak ass 200hp car getting a whole 2MPG better is truly awesome.

Oh wait, the z06 doesn't require premium, and it runs high 12's in the quarter mile

A bad name for Accord owners? First of, an Accord owner is a pointless term. I own an accord because I needed a sub $4k beater car to drive while I gear up to buy a better car in the future. An accord just happened to be the best one I could find at the time, so i'm not an Accord enthusiast.

And a bad name because why exactly? Because I speak truths you don't want to hear?

This car is expensive for what you get, it's slow, it apparently is a shitty drift car according to the article from the original post in this thread, it gets lousy MPG, requires premium fuel for an NA motor..

Oh but it handles really well.

Why not just buy a car that's capable in all of those other areas and slap on some coilovers? I just don't understand why so many people have a hard on for this car. This car isn't at all what they originally said it would be (that is if you had followed it since the first concept appeared).

[shaX 07]

Originally Posted by blur

Right, and the 86 can likely achieve 40+ on the highway in high gear EASILY. What makes you think that IRL a 505hp v8 will achieve better fuel economy than a 4 cyl boxer? Is there ANY logic behind that statement?

Dude are you high? The car is rated at 30MPG, why the hell would it be able to achieve 40 MPG? I'm sure the EPA conducted this test the same way they do the rest-- They drive on the flattest, straightest highway, skipping gears 3 and 5 when shifting and setting the cruise control to 50mph and not stopping until the tank is empty.

And under those conditions apparently the car achieved 30 MPG, which is lousy for a slow 200hp NA car that requires Premium fuel.

[shaX 07]

Originally Posted by russv

Unless you have driven the FRS you can't really make an educated and reasonable negative comment. Perhaps you should be on a Corvette forum instead.

I suppose I Should drive one before I make a Final judgement, however I can't imagine at all that the suspension/handling being the only high point of the car would be enough to make me really want it. I desire more in a car than good handling.

[russv]

Originally Posted by shaX 07

Oh so sorry man. It is the c5 Z06 Corvette that achieves 28 MPG highway, my bad bro.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...18/142226.html

I know that car ONLY has 405hp so yeah a weak ass 200hp car getting a whole 2MPG better is truly awesome.

Oh wait, the z06 doesn't require premium, and it runs high 12's in the quarter mile

A bad name for Accord owners? First of, an Accord owner is a pointless term. I own an accord because I needed a sub $4k beater car to drive while I gear up to buy a better car in the future. An accord just happened to be the best one I could find at the time, so i'm not an Accord enthusiast.

And a bad name because why exactly? Because I speak truths you don't want to hear?

This car is expensive for what you get, it's slow, it apparently is a shitty drift car according to the article from the original post in this thread, it gets lousy MPG, requires premium fuel for an NA motor..

Oh but it handles really well.

Why not just buy a car that's capable in all of those other areas and slap on some coilovers? I just don't understand why so many people have a hard on for this car. This car isn't at all what they originally said it would be (that is if you had followed it since the first concept appeared).

Drive it and you Will understand

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by cassidy0998

The sad fact is that it is underpowered, heavier, and more expensive than what most of us have hoped for.

It's funny how people think this car has somehow changed over time. The reality is that the specs are exactly what they were supposed to be when the first rumors came out. Here's an article from 2009:

http://wot.motortrend.com/rumored-to...ej20-4617.html

They list the specs as
Engine: Subaru 2.0L EJ20 direct-injected gasoline flat-four cylinder
Power: Around 200 hp
Transmission: six-speed manual
Length: 165.4 in.
Width: 68.9 in
Height: 51.2 in
Wheelbase: 97.2 in
Weight: 2645.5 lbs
Price: Around $20,000

Those are all basically spot on, except the price which is really not something they can control. Those of us who have been following this car from the very beginning got exactly what we were expecting. I don't really understand where the people who are disappointed in the final numbers got their high expectations from.

[titusdrake]

Originally Posted by shaX 07

Actually a C5 z06 can achieve 28MPG highway, just do a little bit of research. I know that's difficult for a Toyobaru fanboy but it's very simple.

I love how everybody on this forum who has a hard on for the FR-S/BRZ calls everybody who says something negative (but true) about the cars, a troll. I guess troll is your term for "guy who speaks truths about cars I love".

A corvette will reach 24 if on freeway cruise control on 65. Which is not what you buy a corvette for. In the same situation a fr s/brz will achieve 35 mpg. News flash, this is a fr-s/brz forum, we post here because we like the car. Saying a vette gets comparable gas mileage is foolish, the fr s while romping around town will easily get 24-25 a REALISTIC mpg figure for the vette is 14-17

[shaX 07]

Originally Posted by russv

Drive it and you Will understand

What's really funny about this statement is that nobody who makes it has driven the car either, so how do you know it drives oh so amazing when you haven't even driven it yourself?

[Rabble]

Quit feeding the trolls.

If you don't think the car is worth the money, don't buy it.

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by shaX 07

What's really funny about this statement is that nobody who makes it has driven the car either, so how do you know it drives oh so amazing when you haven't even driven it yourself?

He's one of the first 86. Thanks for playing, better luck next time!

[shaX 07]

Originally Posted by titusdrake

A corvette will reach 24 if on freeway cruise control on 65. Which is not what you buy a corvette for. In the same situation a fr s/brz will achieve 35 mpg. News flash, this is a fr-s/brz forum, we post here because we like the car. Saying a vette gets comparable gas mileage is foolish, the fr s while romping around town will easily get 24-25 a REALISTIC mpg figure for the vette is 14-17

No, you're way wrong. Do you really want me to dig up a thread on corvette forums about MPG?

Also did you miss the part where the Z06 weighs 3,118 pounds and has 405hp and runs a 12.8 in the quarter mile, but still achieves 2-3 MPG less than a BRZ? Oh and again it DOESN'T require premium, therefor the difference is totally negligible.

No the point of a z06 is not MPG, but nor is a BRZ. and there's no way in hell a BRZ is getting 35-40 MPG on the highway. I don't care if you set the cruise to 40mph.

[Zgrinch]

Originally Posted by Rabble

Quit feeding the trolls.

If you don't think the car is worth the money, don't buy it.

Truer words have not been spoken. Buy something else and move on, so the forum can be thinned out from the red light HP junkies.

[titusdrake]

Originally Posted by shaX 07

Dude are you high? The car is rated at 30MPG, why the hell would it be able to achieve 40 MPG? I'm sure the EPA conducted this test the same way they do the rest-- They drive on the flattest, straightest highway, skipping gears 3 and 5 when shifting and setting the cruise control to 50mph and not stopping until the tank is empty.

And under those conditions apparently the car achieved 30 MPG, which is lousy for a slow 200hp NA car that requires Premium fuel.

Epa was 35 mpg..