follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook. Interested in the FT-1? Check out FT1Club
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Evasive Motorsports
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB

Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB Problems, issues, recalls, TSBs

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-16-2013, 01:09 PM   #1
Hakuzen
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Drives: 2014 Scion FR-S
Location: Washington
Posts: 27
Thanks: 5
Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Dealer filled my new FRS with 87 octane; Should I flash ECU?

Hello,

I bought a 2014 Scion FRS a few weeks ago, and about a week ago I found out the dealership filled the initial tank with 87 octane.

Upon contacting the dealer and notifying them that their own car requires premium, they at first tried to deny it; but upon providing clear evidence they admitted that it does indeed require premium and that,

"It will be fine, just start filling up with premium from now"

I am now running on 92 octane (highest I can get in Washington), but I'm wondering if that inital tank of 87 octane might have permanently set my ECU's timing down.

The car does not seem to perform as well as other FRSs out there, anecdotely... It may just be my imagination, but I figured I would check with you guys and see if anybody else has found a confirmed answer to this question.

Should I go back to the dealership and ask them to flash my ECU? Or will the ECU slowly learn back it's timing with 92 octane gas?

Thanks!!
Hakuzen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 01:14 PM   #2
King Tut
NASA SpecE30 Racer
 
King Tut's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: 2006 Honda S2000
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 6,452
Thanks: 591
Thanked 4,823 Times in 2,598 Posts
Mentioned: 250 Post(s)
Tagged: 9 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to King Tut
The ECU will slowly learn, and you should be taking it easy on it and varying your RPM during the first couple tanks anyways.
__________________
- King Tut
Street/Track Car: 2006 Honda S2000 TT3 || Race Car: 1987 BMW 325is SpecE30 || Daily Driver: 1987 BMW 325is || Tow Vehicle: 2014 RAM 1500 EcoDiesel
Sold Cars: 2012 BMW M3 || 2013 Subaru BRZ || 2012 Porsche Cayman R || 2009 Chevrolet Z06 || 2009 BMW M3 || 2004 BMW M3 || 2004 Nissan 350Z
King Tut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 01:26 PM   #3
Hakuzen
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Drives: 2014 Scion FR-S
Location: Washington
Posts: 27
Thanks: 5
Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks Tut!

Just a quick aside, I have to admit that I accidentaly (Honest.. Lol) pushed the RPMs to 5,500 once. It only stayed that high for a split second, and I have not pushed it above 4,000 since. Should I be worried? I was mortified when I realized I did it, after reading the warning in the owner's manual.

Thanks again for the advice!
Hakuzen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 01:27 PM   #4
frs10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Drives: FR-S?
Location: NYC
Posts: 811
Thanks: 72
Thanked 139 Times in 101 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Garage
nothing to worry about, the dealer did the same with mine... after i ran that tank empty, i only filled with 93 shell gas and the car runs nicely
frs10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 01:52 PM   #5
infinite012
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Drives: 13 DGM BRZ Ltd
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 974
Thanks: 294
Thanked 451 Times in 249 Posts
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakuzen View Post
Hello,

I bought a 2014 Scion FRS a few weeks ago, and about a week ago I found out the dealership filled the initial tank with 87 octane.

Upon contacting the dealer and notifying them that their own car requires premium, they at first tried to deny it; but upon providing clear evidence they admitted that it does indeed require premium and that,

"It will be fine, just start filling up with premium from now"

I am now running on 92 octane (highest I can get in Washington), but I'm wondering if that inital tank of 87 octane might have permanently set my ECU's timing down.

The car does not seem to perform as well as other FRSs out there, anecdotely... It may just be my imagination, but I figured I would check with you guys and see if anybody else has found a confirmed answer to this question.

Should I go back to the dealership and ask them to flash my ECU? Or will the ECU slowly learn back it's timing with 92 octane gas?

Thanks!!
Sounds like you need to strongarm the dealership into giving you a brand new FR-S with the right gas.
infinite012 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to infinite012 For This Useful Post:
Ammonia (10-16-2013), Mr.EvoMR (01-06-2014)
Old 10-16-2013, 01:57 PM   #6
Ammonia
Senior Member
 
Ammonia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Drives: Whiteout FRS, Audi A4, 135i (sold)
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 810
Thanks: 1,258
Thanked 435 Times in 239 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinite012 View Post
Sounds like you need to strongarm the dealership into giving you a brand new FR-S with the right gas.

LOL
Ammonia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 02:03 PM   #7
feldy
Senior Member
 
feldy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Drives: 2013 FRS Asphalt
Location: in the sky
Posts: 1,122
Thanks: 295
Thanked 308 Times in 197 Posts
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
You are fine. Just drive till the gas is gone refill you are ok. If you are worried about the ecu just pull the negative terminal off the battery for a few minutes.
__________________
2013 Scion FR-S AT Picked up 5/30/2012
feldy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 02:12 PM   #8
Porsche
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Drives: 2013 BRZ Ltd. MT
Location: USA
Posts: 849
Thanks: 399
Thanked 643 Times in 372 Posts
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakuzen View Post
Just a quick aside, I have to admit that I accidentaly (Honest.. Lol) pushed the RPMs to 5,500 once. It only stayed that high for a split second, and I have not pushed it above 4,000 since. Should I be worried?

No, you needn't worry. Your wonderful new car is just fine.

While I am "old-school" in my break-in methods, I know of no long-term studies showing it to be any better for durability or longevity or even performance.

I once had an experienced Honda dealer ask me if I had installed a different chip in the Si we were trading in; he thought it performed better than anything he'd driven before. It was stock, just normal tune-up specs done by me.

Who knows whether break-in methods really matter at all.

But, one thing is certain: An occasional excursion to higher rpms during break-in is not going to do any harm, either short- or long-term.

Rest easy, and enjoy that terrific new car!
Porsche is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Porsche For This Useful Post:
Mr.EvoMR (01-06-2014), strat61caster (10-16-2013)
Old 10-16-2013, 03:06 PM   #9
Hakuzen
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Drives: 2014 Scion FR-S
Location: Washington
Posts: 27
Thanks: 5
Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porsche View Post
No, you needn't worry. Your wonderful new car is just fine.

While I am "old-school" in my break-in methods, I know of no long-term studies showing it to be any better for durability or longevity or even performance.

I once had an experienced Honda dealer ask me if I had installed a different chip in the Si we were trading in; he thought it performed better than anything he'd driven before. It was stock, just normal tune-up specs done by me.

Who knows whether break-in methods really matter at all.

But, one thing is certain: An occasional excursion to higher rpms during break-in is not going to do any harm, either short- or long-term.

Rest easy, and enjoy that terrific new car!
Thanks Porsche! I'm super paranoid by nature so your reassurance makes me feel a whole lot better.

I'm going to allow the ECU to adjust slowly, as it does seem to be getting better everyday I drive it.

Thanks again everyone for your responses!

Hakuzen is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Hakuzen For This Useful Post:
Porsche (10-16-2013)
Old 10-16-2013, 06:25 PM   #10
Tromatic
Senior Member
 
Tromatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: FR-S
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,326
Thanks: 45
Thanked 767 Times in 383 Posts
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammonia View Post
LOL
Not really funny when there are more than few threads where people have asked about demanding a new car because of some minor problem. Mine ran just fine when I put 87 octane (on purpose) in it.
__________________
Things sold by the gram will always be more exciting than things sold by the pound.
Jeremy Clarkson
Tromatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 07:47 PM   #11
Ammonia
Senior Member
 
Ammonia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Drives: Whiteout FRS, Audi A4, 135i (sold)
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 810
Thanks: 1,258
Thanked 435 Times in 239 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tromatic View Post
Not really funny when there are more than few threads where people have asked about demanding a new car because of some minor problem. Mine ran just fine when I put 87 octane (on purpose) in it.

Its funny because of that. I work at a car dealership I see it every week.
Ammonia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 08:43 PM   #12
LeeMaster
Red wine
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Drives: Subaru BRZ(R.I.P)
Location: Denied
Posts: 1,173
Thanks: 1,267
Thanked 334 Times in 238 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakuzen View Post
Thanks Tut!

Just a quick aside, I have to admit that I accidentaly (Honest.. Lol) pushed the RPMs to 5,500 once. It only stayed that high for a split second, and I have not pushed it above 4,000 since. Should I be worried? I was mortified when I realized I did it, after reading the warning in the owner's manual.

Thanks again for the advice!
Nothing to worry about, they even dyno the car at the factory prior to shipping to confirm that it's running the way it should. Just dont do it anymore lol
__________________
LeeMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2013, 02:45 AM   #13
fistpoint
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: Supercharged Golf Cart
Location: Estados Unitos
Posts: 1,187
Thanks: 75
Thanked 354 Times in 198 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Unless you make them, no dealer puts the expensive stuff in, why would they? Maybe expensive cars but even then I doubt it. Who's going to pay someone to test their fuel on the first tank to find out?

They knew what it takes, it says so right there when they open the fuel door, and for that exact reason. How could anyone work at selling cars and not notice ever in their lifetime that the fuel door tells you what to put in it? Of course they knew.

The manual also says emergency runs over 4k are OK.
fistpoint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 09:19 PM   #14
Hakuzen
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Drives: 2014 Scion FR-S
Location: Washington
Posts: 27
Thanks: 5
Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
UPDATE:

After another tank of 92 through the engine and not a lot of performance increase, as well as a few odd issues that seemed timing-related, I decided to go ahead and reset the ECU. I filled it up with Lucas Oil Octane Booster + a full tank of 92 octane Shell V-Power, then pulled the plug on the battery for a few hours.

Upon reconnecting the battery, I drove it 60 miles in varied environments (on and off the highway), then sit it over night, then drove it another 60 miles the next day. The results have been really good. It seemed to be something of a magic bullet, solving numerous small issues I was having with the car.

Issues include:

-Not rough, but maybe.. Shaky idle? A bit of hunting, and the engine just didn't seem to like idling.

-Throttle Delay. Not to be confused with the throttle dead spot you get after resetting the ECU for the first 100 miles, it just seemed that when shifting into second or sometimes third gear, there would be a slight hesitation in the throttle, like a latency almost. It didn't affect first gear or 4th/5th/6th.

-White Smoke coming out of exhaust at idle. It would happen about 75% of the time, warmed up or not. It only came out at idle, and if I was actually moving at any speed beyond 1mph there would be no visible exhaust smoke of any kind.

-Slight "Rattle" noise coming from the engine compartment. It was clearly audible in second and third gear acceleration, but not in first or 4th/5th/6th gear. It would happen about 75% of the time, about the same rate as the white exhaust smoke at idle. It sounded sorta like there was some change rattling on top of the engine... Very odd sound.

I am happy to report that one ECU reset & 150 miles later, ALL of the above problems have been resolved. There is no more exhaust smoke at idle, once warmed up. The rattle has completely dissipated, and the engine feels solid at idle. It does still hunt occasionally, but way less often, and the engine doesn't feel shaky when it kicks in.

The "Throttle dead spot" was definitely there for the first 90 or so miles, but it went away and the car now accelerates very naturally and the engine sounds super clean on higher revs. When shifting into second and third gear, there is no more "hesitation".

Oh, and on top of all that, my fuel economy increased from 23.5mpg average to 29mpg average! WOW!

Just wanted to share my results with others that may face this issue. If your dealer does fill your first tank up with low-quality/low-octane gas, I HIGHLY recommend the ECU reset after you've run a few high octane tanks through the engine. It has breathed new life into my car's performance.
Hakuzen is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Hakuzen For This Useful Post:
Mr.EvoMR (01-06-2014)
Old 01-06-2014, 12:33 AM   #15
dssence
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Drives: Toyota FT/MT 86
Location: argentina
Posts: 223
Thanks: 105
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Hi i've read your post about your dealer having filled your tank with low octane fuel. In my case I bought my Scion or FT 86 cause i'm in argentina, I took my new car of the dealer a couple weeks ago.
But to my suprise, the ECU at first showed an average of 50 Litres / 100km and I SAID WHAT!!! it's shown in Litres per 100km not in MPG. Then it came to my mind could this unit be defective?
Am I pushing the gas pedal too much .. too much revs? not really cause I was way below 3000rpm. Thing is I didn't travel that far with my car, only did city trips to the supermarket didn't take it to the highway.
Then I said well I might no be doing a precise timing on shifting the gears.. So i enabled the G-on which shows on the dashboard the gear you're in and and a small triangle blinks when you got to make the other gear..
Well it helped a bit the ECU showed 25 Litres/100km .. but it's still TOOO MUCH!
SO what's going on with my new car? is the ECU Faulty? could the fuel my dealer filled the tank with be of low octane and is influencing the fuel consumption? don't know what else to do . please hep me out
thanks
dssence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 12:45 AM   #16
mmsracing
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Drives: 2014 FRS
Location: Colonia, NJ
Posts: 37
Thanks: 5
Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by feldy View Post
You are fine. Just drive till the gas is gone refill you are ok. If you are worried about the ecu just pull the negative terminal off the battery for a few minutes.
He is correct, the ecu will adjust itself over time. but if you want, just reset ecu by doing what he said above.

btw, I am a certified EFI tuner
mmsracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 02:34 AM   #17
dssence
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Drives: Toyota FT/MT 86
Location: argentina
Posts: 223
Thanks: 105
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Can someone help on my previous post.
Thanks
dssence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 08:04 AM   #18
SloS14
Senior Member
 
SloS14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Drives: 2013 FR-S whiteout
Location: United States
Posts: 688
Thanks: 363
Thanked 600 Times in 242 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dssence View Post
Hi i've read your post about your dealer having filled your tank with low octane fuel. In my case I bought my Scion or FT 86 cause i'm in argentina, I took my new car of the dealer a couple weeks ago.
But to my suprise, the ECU at first showed an average of 50 Litres / 100km and I SAID WHAT!!! it's shown in Litres per 100km not in MPG. Then it came to my mind could this unit be defective?
Am I pushing the gas pedal too much .. too much revs? not really cause I was way below 3000rpm. Thing is I didn't travel that far with my car, only did city trips to the supermarket didn't take it to the highway.
Then I said well I might no be doing a precise timing on shifting the gears.. So i enabled the G-on which shows on the dashboard the gear you're in and and a small triangle blinks when you got to make the other gear..
Well it helped a bit the ECU showed 25 Litres/100km .. but it's still TOOO MUCH!
SO what's going on with my new car? is the ECU Faulty? could the fuel my dealer filled the tank with be of low octane and is influencing the fuel consumption? don't know what else to do . please hep me out
thanks
That calculation is most probably off. Have you reset it?
SloS14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 11:12 AM   #19
dssence
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Drives: Toyota FT/MT 86
Location: argentina
Posts: 223
Thanks: 105
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Hi what do you mean by having resetted it ? help me a bit here.

Update: I think you may point to resetting the dashboard MPG function, which I did actually. And the values changed from 50Litres / 100km to 25litres for every 100km.

Last edited by dssence; 01-06-2014 at 11:25 AM.
dssence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 11:32 AM   #20
smbrm
Senior Member
 
smbrm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Drives: Scion FRS Ht Lva(AT)
Location: Alberta
Posts: 408
Thanks: 30
Thanked 76 Times in 53 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dssence View Post
Hi what do you mean by having resetted it ? help me a bit here.

Update: I think you may point to resetting the dashboard MPG function, which I did actually. And the values changed from 50Litres / 100km to 25litres for every 100km.
Cycle through the display until you see the avg fuel consumption. Consult the owners manual on how to do this. Then press & hold until it zero's. You have now reset the average fuel consumption monitor. If you do this at the beginning of each fill up, when you fill up next time the reading is the approximate average for that tank of fuel. If you never reset you are getting an average since the last time it was reset.

The FRS/BRZ has a very broad band of fuel consumption depending on ambient conditions and how you drive it!
smbrm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 11:36 AM   #21
dssence
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Drives: Toyota FT/MT 86
Location: argentina
Posts: 223
Thanks: 105
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by smbrm View Post
Cycle through the display until you see the avg fuel consumption. Consult the owners manual on how to do this. Then press & hold until it zero's. You have now reset the average fuel consumption monitor. If you do this at the beginning of each fill up, when you fill up next time the reading is the approximate average for that tank of fuel. If you never reset you are getting an average since the last time it was reset.

The FRS/BRZ has a very broad band of fuel consumption depending on ambient conditions and how you drive it!
Hi yup I did already reset the avg fuel consumption monitor, which in my case tells you the average but in litres per 100km. I've resetted it when It showed like 50 Litres for every 100km which was a complete nonsense.
But I had the tank filled completely by the dealer. I setted the trip B option to 0km when I took the car out of the dealer. and I measured the first quarter of the tank which would be equal to 12.5 litres. I only did 36KM. That really annoyed me. Then I enabled the G-on function which tells you how to shift gears.. after I did that the fuel consumption monitor went from 50 to 25 litres/100km but it's still being too much.
any ideas? My car is brand new
dssence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 02:22 PM   #22
Gords_zenith
Senior Member
 
Gords_zenith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Drives: WRB BRZ Sport Tech
Location: Durham, Canada
Posts: 290
Thanks: 139
Thanked 76 Times in 51 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dssence View Post
Hi yup I did already reset the avg fuel consumption monitor, which in my case tells you the average but in litres per 100km. I've resetted it when It showed like 50 Litres for every 100km which was a complete nonsense.
But I had the tank filled completely by the dealer. I setted the trip B option to 0km when I took the car out of the dealer. and I measured the first quarter of the tank which would be equal to 12.5 litres. I only did 36KM. That really annoyed me. Then I enabled the G-on function which tells you how to shift gears.. after I did that the fuel consumption monitor went from 50 to 25 litres/100km but it's still being too much.
any ideas? My car is brand new
The avg fuel economy will be really high for the first 1/4 tank as it there isn't enough data (Km's driven) to bring down the avg. Drive it for a couple of tanks worth and re-check the avg you will find that it will be reading much lower 10L/100km or less. Mine reads 8L/100km and I have a heavy foot :-).

The current fuel consumption will read as high as 50L/100km to as low as 0 while driving, this is normal.
Gords_zenith is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Quick question about a dealer trading another dealer for the BRZ I want Prog Subaru BRZ General Forum 17 09-15-2013 02:03 PM
Dealer can't flash my ecu... jm1681 Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 16 09-05-2013 04:47 PM
Would you buy a car from a dealer that stuck a dealer (ad) plaque or sticker on cars? HitTheGas Off-Topic Lounge 50 04-29-2013 02:37 PM
100 octane race gas: 91 octane ratio? GhostofAkina Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 15 02-08-2013 01:23 AM
Servicing my FR-S at Subaru dealer rather than Scion dealer dnL Mechanical Maintenance (Oil, Fluids, Break-In, Servicing) 25 08-28-2012 06:25 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.