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Old 04-03-2012, 08:18 PM   #1
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Toyota 86 vs. 2012 Honda CRZ Mugen ICF

So apparently Honda has greenlit a version of the Mugen CRZ for production in the UK. After looking at the details it seems like a pretty good package. Was wondering if any of our European friends might be mulling this comparison over.

2012 Honda CR-Z iCF Mugen
Price 24,000
0-100KPH: 6.1
Horsepower: 173 HP

Not many any details yet at the moment. Expected to go on sale in the Spring.



http://www.topspeed.com/cars/honda/2...-ar120745.html

For reference the GT 86 will go for 28,000.

I drove the CRZ and was pretty surprised. It's a great package, with solid steering feel, somewhat toss-able, and somewhat sporty with the manual. If they give a stiffer suspension, and a little more power, it could be a seriously fun to drive car.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:30 PM   #2
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I thought the GT86 was 24,999 GBP?
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:34 PM   #3
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It wasn't built to be a drivers car from the beginning. The 86 is.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:42 PM   #4
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I thought the GT86 was 24,999 GBP?
it is

announced just under 25K so no clue where OP is pulling his numbers from
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:30 PM   #5
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It wasn't built to be a drivers car from the beginning. The 86 is.
neither was the corolla that the 86 is named after. or the itr for that matter
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:53 PM   #6
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Yeah sorry not sure where I pulled that number from, must have been an old article.

Anyways I would say the CR-Z was built to be a driver's car. It was meant to be the first hybrid built for the enthusiast. If you've driven one you would know, it does do a lot of things right. It is actually lighter then the BRZ and it does feel a little tossable, but it doesn't exactly have a sport tuned suspension.

I think this Mugen model is promising.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:51 PM   #7
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I thought the CRZ was pretty big in the US especially for those people into track events? Lots of people modding CRZ's etc.

I wonder if the Mugen model will make it to Australia. Doubt it though as I've hardly seen any CRZ's around Melbourne. Doesn't seem to be much of a market here. Must be the $40k price tag on it though...
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:17 PM   #8
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I saw my second CRZ ever today! Definitely not popular here in California at least.
Personally, I just can't stand the front. The rear styling is actually pretty good imo, I like how Honda is doing the rears on their cars, whereas the BRZ/FRS is slightly ugly at the back, but the BRZ/FRS front fascia looks much more natural and aesthetically pleasing.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:51 PM   #9
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Really? I know of 2 guys that own CRZ's and I don't even live in the States.

I actually quite like the styling of the front and dislike that back! Each to their own I guess...

I think what makes the BRZ/FRS/86 ugly is the damn tail lights!
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Old 04-04-2012, 01:25 AM   #10
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Really? I know of 2 guys that own CRZ's and I don't even live in the States.

I actually quite like the styling of the front and dislike that back! Each to their own I guess...

I think what makes the BRZ/FRS/86 ugly is the damn tail lights!
yea the protruding tail lights annoys me.
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Old 04-04-2012, 02:12 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by 86fanatic View Post
So apparently Honda has greenlit a version of the Mugen CRZ for production in the UK. After looking at the details it seems like a pretty good package. Was wondering if any of our European friends might be mulling this comparison over.

2012 Honda CR-Z iCF Mugen
Price 24,000
0-100KPH: 6.1
Horsepower: 173 HP

Not many any details yet at the moment. Expected to go on sale in the Spring.



http://www.topspeed.com/cars/honda/2...-ar120745.html

For reference the GT 86 will go for 28,000.

I drove the CRZ and was pretty surprised. It's a great package, with solid steering feel, somewhat toss-able, and somewhat sporty with the manual. If they give a stiffer suspension, and a little more power, it could be a seriously fun to drive car.
Personally I wouldnt consider this for a second. For a start, its FWD!!!! and has 25HP less than the Toyota. It might have the 0-60 due to weight/gearing but at 100MPH the lower wind resistence and more powerful Toyota will leave it behind.

I have a friend whom works for Honda and does not rate the CRZ. He much prefers the old Civic Type R. Anyway the manual GT 86 starts at 24,995 and comes fully kitted out. Mine arrives early JULY
To be honest I have been looking at the GTI, Audi TT, Civic Type R, Pergeot RCZ, Audi A5 coupe, BMW 3 series coupe but all of them have things I dont like. To me the Toyota GT 86 is exactly the car I have been waiting for: A drivers car with decent straight line performance (high revving, with no turbo) that is in the 20k-30k region.
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Old 04-04-2012, 02:23 AM   #12
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^^ heh now that you bring the Civic up, that reminds me, for people saying the CRZ has pretty good driving dynamics, how does it compare to a Civic Si/Type R (which we don't have in America)? If it's comparable, might as well get a Civic. Or if you want something wacko and unique like this, FI a Civic Hybrid :O
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:31 AM   #13
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The CR-Z is indeed unique ... i've only seen 2 thus far ...
if it had not a battery and back seats ... it would sell so much more...
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:42 AM   #14
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Speaking of Honda... there's a pretty interesting discussion on how the heck Honda lost its direction in providing us with exciting cars.

[u2b]GoPVkKZ2ADc[/u2b]
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:14 AM   #15
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I thought the CRZ was pretty big in the US especially for those people into track events? Lots of people modding CRZ's etc.

I wonder if the Mugen model will make it to Australia. Doubt it though as I've hardly seen any CRZ's around Melbourne. Doesn't seem to be much of a market here. Must be the $40k price tag on it though...
I have not seen anyone one talking about tracking a CRZ and have only seen 1 around my area
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:55 AM   #16
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I've seen a few here but I just don't understand a tiny hybrid like that only getting 37mpg. The Fit gets 35mpg without being a hybrid! And no I haven't driven one, but I've heard they're not nearly as sporty as they're made out to be. Credit to Honda for trying to make a sporty hybrid, but they're not there yet. Maybe the Mugen version will help!
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:44 PM   #17
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Think of the hybrid system as giving you a little more power and regen braking capability, it's the same gas engine attached, rather than just an mpg booster. People think you buy a hybrid to save the environment, but it has tangible performance benefits (that haven't been fully exploited yet, aside from Lexus with their ridiculously overpowered luxo-hybrid-tanks).

If they just sold the CRZ in the US with a supercharger as standard, I think they would've gotten a lot more sales rofl.
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:29 PM   #18
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Think of the hybrid system as giving you a little more power and regen braking capability, it's the same gas engine attached, rather than just an mpg booster. People think you buy a hybrid to save the environment, but it has tangible performance benefits (that haven't been fully exploited yet, aside from Lexus with their ridiculously overpowered luxo-hybrid-tanks).

If they just sold the CRZ in the US with a supercharger as standard, I think they would've gotten a lot more sales rofl.
I understand the instant tq from the motors is great but I would not consider a hybrid a performance plus considering all the weight the batteries bring.

You would have to make a pretty dedicated track car gutted stripped weight reduced to off set that. I mean had Honda just dropped in a k20/k24 we could of gotten a quick nimble car that still most likely get great mpg
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Old 04-04-2012, 05:18 PM   #19
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The CRZ is actually pretty light at something like 2650 pounds - lighter then the FRS/BRZ.

I would say it's just a suspension tweak or two away from really having a true toss-able character, but as a starting point it's actually almost there.

Saying the Fit gets a little lower highway mileage while not being a hybrid is the wrong way to look at it in my opinion. The CRZ is faster, sportier, more refined, AND gets better mileage - significantly so in the city and the combined ratings.
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Old 04-04-2012, 05:25 PM   #20
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my integra was lighter and had more hp and still i couldnt get over the fwd. dont see how this will be any better than my integra and especially not better than a light rwd car with lsd. if they are priced the same in the uk its a no brainer for the gt86. in the US, luckily we dont have a even think about this comparison.
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Old 04-05-2012, 03:45 AM   #21
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my integra was lighter and had more hp and still i couldnt get over the fwd. dont see how this will be any better than my integra and especially not better than a light rwd car with lsd. if they are priced the same in the uk its a no brainer for the gt86. in the US, luckily we dont have a even think about this comparison.
Sadly people are always going to consider other inferior FWD car to the toyota GT86.

For a start, the MPG is 36 vs 40+ from the VAG group 2.0TSI engines and now toyota uk have published a rather modest 0-100kmh of 7.6 Sec vs the sub 7sec times for the TT,Rocco,Gti,A3 ect...

For the uneducated whom want a "pretty" car that goes fast for less than 30k they will not be able to tell the difference. Last time I looked, the Toyota UK website didnt even mention its RWD!!!!!!!

Maybe its a marketing thing whereby they hold back key information to keep demand under control. Perhaps later in the year they'll start talking 50:50 weight distribution and RWD.
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:58 PM   #22
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Seems like this car is pretty hated on both sides of the pond

I guess I'm the only one that thought it was decent. Have you guys hating on this car actually driven it? It's much different then an Integra, the hybrid system gives plenty of torque early for a pretty sporty feel. I could imagine with a supercharger that the iCF adds delivering top end, this could be a pretty fun package.
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