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View Poll Results: Have you had an issue with your Direct Injection System?
I have had a DI issue and was fixed under warranty (Subaru) 8 11.94%
I had a DI issue that caused Engine Failure and was fixed under warranty (Subaru) 2 2.99%
I have had a DI issue and was fixed under warranty (Toyota) 29 43.28%
I have had a DI issue that caused Engine Failure and was fixed under warranty (Toyota) 3 4.48%
I have had a DI issue and denied warranty by (Subaru) 7 10.45%
I have had a DI issue and denied warranty by (Toyota) 10 14.93%
I had a DI issue that caused Engine Failure and was Denied warranty (Subaru) 6 8.96%
I had a DI issue that caused Engine Failure and was Denied warranty (Toyota) 2 2.99%
Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-14-2013, 10:19 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by phm14 View Post
Thousands of 86 owners, including myself, drive these cars aggressively every day. Go search YT for "FRS BRZ track" and watch. Saying you can't drive them aggressively because a few have run bad tunes that caused issues, and one took his car back out on track, twice, after major problems were apparent and blew up his motor, is kind of like saying you can't drink from a glass because a glass may break if it's dropped.
http://www.trackjunkies.org/topic/24...nk-i-broke-it/
I for one hope you are right, but there are posts of folks with the DI failure who never even autocross let alone run a tune, what I've noticed is they typically have higher miles. Many of the "track Junkies" don't use this as their primary car and may have fairly low miles. Its the guys who have commuted 30k miles the last year holding down a job who don't have time for "tunes" and autocross that concern me the most.

But I do hope you are right, the way the ECUtek encrypts the ECU never set well with me. This is what an 8 bit processor ECU? Ever use encryption on a 64 bit processor (slows it down considerably.) It would be really nice to dismiss this entire issue as bad tuning/ECUtek issues, but Mike is adamant that his ECU is stock and gave it to Subaru for proof. I am sure some of these failures are tune related but I don't think we can say all of them are?
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:31 AM   #100
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I didn't say you can't drive aggressively. I just said that Subaru voids the warranty if you go on a track or autocross it (and the injector seals happen to fail). I just find this a littlebit lame considering what they charge for this car in Europe.
I'm not sure that's the case. Let's remember that the only ones who have 1st hand knowledge of what's been done to these cars are the owners. You void your warranty if you make power mods, especially ones that may cause lean AF issues and cause major problems, or race the car. Read the warranty contract. Can they refuse to pay for heat damage when they see a ECU has been re-flashed? You better believe it. Try and see things from the makers side. How many "free" motors are they supposed to provide? Guess who pays for them in the end? I've never blown a motor in 5 years on track. Might have something to do with the fact that I've never found it necessary to mess with my cars' ECU. You want to play R&D with a new platform? Its called "pay to play". Don't ask the maker and its customers to pay for your actions. I've been driving Toyotas for 33 years. If there's a manufacturing problem, they will sort it out and make it right at their expense. They have a proven record of doing right by owners, and they proved it again going above and beyond by giving "track warrior" a free motor. I don't have any experience with Subaru, but if a legit problem is found, my guess would be they will follow the precedent set by Toyota.
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:41 AM   #101
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I didn't say you can't drive aggressively. I just said that Subaru voids the warranty if you go on a track or autocross it (and the injector seals happen to fail). I just find this a littlebit lame considering what they charge for this car in Europe.
Again, they cannot void the warranty simply for driving on a track in a HDPE. The warranty verbiage states that competition events will void your warranty. HPDE's are by definition, not competition events. There would have to be another component, like abuse or neglect in order for it to stick.
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:47 AM   #102
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Ok, but autocross is considered competition even though it only lasts a short time or is it not?
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:49 AM   #103
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Ok, but autocross is considered competition even though it only lasts a short time or is it not?
It is timed, so it is a competitive event. My current local favorite HP driving venue is open track day (OTD) @ Texas World Speedway 2.9 mile road course. Fours hours of open track for solo approved drivers. Driving a road course multiple 20+ minute sessions will heat things up quite a bit more than a AX run.
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:53 AM   #104
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Well, I guess in that case I just need to hope for my injector seals to hold up since I did this not on GT5: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38133
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:16 AM   #105
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Sorry for the noob question, but when you guys get the DI issue, does it show up as check engine light and is displayed on the code reader?
Nope

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Old 06-14-2013, 11:20 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by phm14 View Post
I'm not sure that's the case. Let's remember that the only ones who have 1st hand knowledge of what's been done to these cars are the owners. You void your warranty if you make power mods, especially ones that may cause lean AF issues and cause major problems, or race the car. Read the warranty contract. Can they refuse to pay for heat damage when they see a ECU has been re-flashed? You better believe it. Try and see things from the makers side. How many "free" motors are they supposed to provide? Guess who pays for them in the end? I've never blown a motor in 5 years on track. Might have something to do with the fact that I've never found it necessary to mess with my cars' ECU. You want to play R&D with a new platform? Its called "pay to play". Don't ask the maker and its customers to pay for your actions. I've been driving Toyotas for 33 years. If there's a manufacturing problem, they will sort it out and make it right at their expense. They have a proven record of doing right by owners, and they proved it again going above and beyond by giving "track warrior" a free motor. I don't have any experience with Subaru, but if a legit problem is found, my guess would be they will follow the precedent set by Toyota.
The issue at hand ( for us ), is that Subaru is unwilling to investigate or consider the evidence we have provided.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:28 AM   #107
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^Light or no light, there is definitely a problem there. I would take that problem straight to the dealer, after I called to give them the opportunity to tow it in. Since my car is stock back to the rear axle, I don't see how they could refuse warranty unless they knew it had been raced or re-flashed.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:33 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post
But I do hope you are right, the way the ECUtek encrypts the ECU never set well with me. This is what an 8 bit processor ECU? Ever use encryption on a 64 bit processor (slows it down considerably.) It would be really nice to dismiss this entire issue as bad tuning/ECUtek issues, but Mike is adamant that his ECU is stock and gave it to Subaru for proof. I am sure some of these failures are tune related but I don't think we can say all of them are?
The ECU is 32 bit actually.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:33 AM   #109
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The issue at hand ( for us ), is that Subaru is unwilling to investigate or consider the evidence we have provided.
Didn't they already put a new motor in your car so they could troubleshoot your 1st motor? Is that video of your 1st or 2nd motor?
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:33 PM   #110
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^Light or no light, there is definitely a problem there. I would take that problem straight to the dealer, after I called to give them the opportunity to tow it in. Since my car is stock back to the rear axle, I don't see how they could refuse warranty unless they knew it had been raced or re-flashed.
Well, considering the engine seized about an hour later... I'm inclined to agree

The video is the 2nd motor. The 1st motor was taken for whatever analysis that Subaru wanted to do; it wasn't permanently damaged in any way that I'm aware of.
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:42 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by phm14 View Post
Thousands of 86 owners, including myself, drive these cars aggressively every day. Go search YT for "FRS BRZ track" and watch. Saying you can't drive them aggressively because a few have run bad tunes that caused issues, and one who continued to flog his car multiple times on track after major problems were apparent and blew up his motor, is kind of like saying you can't drink from a glass because a glass may break if it's dropped.
http://www.trackjunkies.org/topic/24...nk-i-broke-it/
this... exactly... this problem will only effect few of us...

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The popping back in the inlet manifold during cold start/cat warmup is most likely nothing to do with the fuel injectors. It's to do with a very aggressive spark angle.

All this talk about parts being made wrong and tolerances is theory from the unqualified on this forum and it's having a negative impact on new owners who come on here and read this drivel. You guys really should stop this as you're going to create a bad name for our cars when it's really unjust.
what? so what about the guys who have complete injector seal failure? In the cases where the injector seal is completely burnt off? you dont think sudden blow-by, during the combustion cycle, of the injectors can't cause popping?

or more so for the guys who's injector seals are still in tact but the injectors are still burnt past the seal?

And more interesting, there are alot of people who track their cars with a tune on this forum but its not happening to them?

thats why i'm guessing the blame is on a rare case of tolerances during manufacturing
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Old 06-14-2013, 01:26 PM   #112
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Well, considering the engine seized about an hour later... I'm inclined to agree

The video is the 2nd motor. The 1st motor was taken for whatever analysis that Subaru wanted to do; it wasn't permanently damaged in any way that I'm aware of.
Mike, I searched "Mike Kang BRZ" as you suggested in your thread. I think there are some things working against you here. 1st, those videos are mostly all "timed events", as evidenced in the titles. Warranties and insurance do not like that. Insurance and car companies can't insure/warrant cars used for racing (timed) because it is not economically viable. Second, you've had two identical motor issues, similar to those known to coincidentally result from lean condition AM "tune" failures. Given the ratio of cars in service to cars with DI leaks, adjusted for those that had the ECU played with, what are the odds that one car with no tune would have this happen twice? I don't know the number, but as it stands currently, the odds are astronomically in favor of something other than a manufacturing issue affecting your car. Those odds are doubled since its happened twice. I'm not accusing you of being dishonest, but I understand Subaru's position. Here's a general question: If the ECU is re-flashed, what data is left of driving parameters and ECU AM tuning? Is it possible to erase that data so the dealer can't see it?
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