E85 USERS!!! Please read, interesting stuff!

[Sportsguy83]

Quoting first issue reported with E85 and stock fuel system, THE STOCK IN TANK FUEL FILTER DISINTEGRATED FROM E85 USE:

Please read the ENTIRE OP before posting!!

Originally Posted by robispec

I was lucky as I have many friends in the tc community they hit the problem FIRST TRY.. seems their intank filter does the same on their e-85 boosted cars too... I'm ASSUMING regular gasoline with ocasional e-85 uses will prevent this ...No Dangit I wont go there... ALL alcohols are SOLVENTS too...and they work particularly well on adhesives....like the kind glueing the felt material to the filter pleats...so with Murphy in mine if it can fail it will...and at the worst possible time.
We
Cleaned the tank and all feed and return lines
Replaced the intank pump
Replaced the port injectors
Replaced Direct injection pump
Replaced/cleaned all DI hardlines
Replaced the direct injectors
We did this from the tank forward in sequence to try and isolate the restrictions.
Car did not run clean till EVERYTHING had been serviced/replaced/cleaned..
ALL E-85 users I would LOOK at your intank sump bowl. ANY DEBRIS means your return fillter is disintegrating...

Originally Posted by robispec

but it is cycling fuel through the sump side tank to pull fuel to the surge sump..I wouldn't call that returnless...all fuel pulled from the sump is passed through this filter before entering the sump the fuel pump sits in.

sump picture

debris from di pump and hardlines

the offending part

Where it is located NOTE it surrounds the fuel pump.


YES I TAKE CRAPPY PICTURES...

Don@Accelerated Performance Openened his filter and it didn't seem to present this issue.

Originally Posted by Don@Accelerated

So what exactly had you prematurely cutting the filter open. Maybe I missed the initial problem.

For the sake of argument I went and cut my factory filter housing up. I have 4k+ only E85 Miles basically. I have no signs of any degredation to the filter. Now it is true that over time the paper gasket will now allow heavy enough flow for the E85. I haven't run into that scenario yet. It can't be a sitting issue either because mine sat the entire winter here. I wasn't able to put many miles on it.

Have you been/or ever have used an octane booster in the car? Fuel Supplement Additive? It looks crystaline in that picture. E85 is not going to cause that.

I have pictures of my filter and it looks nothing like yours, and doesn't show the slightest sign of any issues yet. My car sat all winter with

Lets discuss further

[xjohnx]

Isn't the BRZ's stock fuel system a returnless system (just going by this thread: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36231 )?

if so, would we even have a return filter?

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

Isn't the BRZ's stock fuel system a returnless system (just going by this thread: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36231 )?

if so, would we even have a return filter?

Edited: It is not the sock filter below the pump, see OP for explanation.

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

I think Robi just called it that, but we do have a filter in tank for sure, sits right below the FP. And yes, our stock fuel system is returnless.

Right, but the filter they're talking about disintegrating is the return line filter, no?

ALL E-85 users I would LOOK at your intank sump bowl. ANY DEBRIS means your return fillter is disintegrating...

[SkullWorks]

Wouldn't it be better to wait for the thread Robi already promised...He has much more info to share I am sure, and at this rate his first response will be on page 3 and effectively lost....

[brichard0625]

damn been on e85 since march...switching back to regular fuel in two weeks..can anybody take a picture of what i am suppose to be checking...have no clue where it cud be or what it looks like

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

Right, but the filter they're talking about disintegrating is the return line filter, no?

Nox explained in the OP with pictures.

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

Wouldn't it be better to wait for the thread Robi already promised...He has much more info to share I am sure, and at this rate his first response will be on page 3 and effectively lost....

His explanation has been added to the OP.

[ATL BRZ]

So are those of us with no choice but E10 Gasoline disintegrating our in tank filters as well, just at a slower rate???

[robispec]

but it is cycling fuel through the sump side tank to pull fuel to the surge sump..I wouldn't call that returnless...all fuel pulled from the sump is passed through this filter before entering the sump the fuel pump sits in.

sump picture

debris from di pump and hardlines

the offending part

Where it is located NOTE it surrounds the fuel pump.


YES I TAKE CRAPPY PICTURES...

[AVOturboworld]

I haven't personally taken apart the BRZ/FR-S fuel pump assembly, but I have taken apart the fuel pump assemblies for the newer Subaru's. The BRZ fuel pump assembly looks similar to that design (but not exactly the same), and if so, the portion of that assembly that the fuel pump clips into also has a filter on the inside. That may be what they are referencing as coming apart, as it's likely a different material than the "sock" that the fuel pump is pulling fuel through.

Ok, Robispec already beat me to it.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by AVOturboworld

I haven't personally taken apart the BRZ/FR-S fuel pump assembly, but I have taken apart the fuel pump assemblies for the newer Subaru's. The BRZ fuel pump assembly looks similar to that design (but not exactly the same), and if so, the portion of that assembly that the fuel pump clips into also has a filter on the inside. That may be what they are referencing as coming apart, as it's likely a different material than the "sock" that the fuel pump is pulling fuel through.

Ok, Robispec already beat me to it.

Very interesting, I hadn't noticed this!

[Xdragonxb0i]

Hmm makes me weary about going e85

[King Tut]

I didn't know there was a filter there either. I thought we only had the sock on the bottom of the pump.

[FR-S Matt]

This is exactly why I didn't jump on putting e85 in a car that wasn't originally intended for it. Good catch though and good knowledge for people that do use e85. Looks like I'll be sticking with good ole' 93 oct.

I doubt the E10 is affecting the filter. There would be a mass recall coming if that is the case.

Work blocks the pictures.