follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook. Interested in the FT-1? Check out FT1Club
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Oakos Automotive
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Engine, Exhaust, Transmission

Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-12-2013, 03:57 AM   #239
rx3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: BRZ
Location: Europe
Posts: 267
Thanks: 48
Thanked 71 Times in 48 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
What you mean by you can hear it detonate?
Detonation usually makes a pinging sound (sort of like a small ringing bell) which you can hear when you step on the throttle (not lift the throttle).
rx3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 07:30 AM   #240
Gary in NJ
Senior Member
 
Gary in NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Drives: WR Blue BRZ, 240Z
Location: Amongst the twisty roads
Posts: 587
Thanks: 21
Thanked 403 Times in 204 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx3 View Post
What you mean by you can hear it detonate?
Detonation usually makes a pinging sound (sort of like a small ringing bell) which you can hear when you step on the throttle (not lift the throttle).
You are confusing Pre-Ignition with Detonation. Pre-Ignition (a/k/a Knocking) occurs when there are hot spots in the combustion chamber from either carbon deposits or too hot a sparkplug range. It is annoying but largely non-distructive. It's sounds like pinging.

Detonation is erratic combustion that occurs in the compression stroke. It is destructive. A "mild" case will cause head gasket or sparkplug failure. A severe case will bend connecting rods or destroy pistons. It too sounds like pinging, but it also feels like the power has been cut in half...like someone has tied a 2,000 pound weight to the bumper.
__________________
Phantom ESC, ECUtek Tune, Nameless Front Pipe & Axle Back, Enkei RS+M 17x8 et35, OEM+Ref


Gary in NJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 07:41 AM   #241
2forme
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: 2013 Subaru BRZ Limited
Location: MA
Posts: 3,076
Thanks: 972
Thanked 1,546 Times in 840 Posts
Mentioned: 164 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forme View Post
I don't think this is directly related to shifting. I've seen this problem first hand on a friends BRZ, and he has never shifted aggressively. Never tracked the car, either. He has a stick, though.
^
|

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tainen View Post
it is related to shifting. After I put my headers on, I can hear the car detonate when I lift throttle over 6k rpm or so. Couldn't hear it before.
Not necessarily. Your case, perhaps. But not always.
2forme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 09:31 AM   #242
OrbitalEllipses
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: Attitude
Location: MD
Posts: 10,066
Thanks: 884
Thanked 4,859 Times in 2,891 Posts
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
>:[ no more power mods til this crap is figured out.
OrbitalEllipses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 09:47 AM   #243
ft_sjo
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Drives: GT86
Location: The Motherland
Posts: 1,403
Thanks: 140
Thanked 467 Times in 269 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
It is figured out. What's wrong with you people? Desperate for something to chat shit about?
ft_sjo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ft_sjo For This Useful Post:
whitefrs (06-12-2013)
Old 06-12-2013, 09:49 AM   #244
whitefrs
Love Boost!!!!!!!!
 
whitefrs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: Whiteout Scion FR-S
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 3,630
Thanks: 429
Thanked 897 Times in 603 Posts
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ft_sjo View Post
It is figured out. What's wrong with you people? Desperate for something to chat shit about?
Im not sure if u are being sarcastic or serious
__________________
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ I LOVE BOOST ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
whitefrs is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to whitefrs For This Useful Post:
vgi (06-12-2013)
Old 06-12-2013, 10:42 AM   #245
OrbitalEllipses
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: Attitude
Location: MD
Posts: 10,066
Thanks: 884
Thanked 4,859 Times in 2,891 Posts
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ft_sjo View Post
It is figured out. What's wrong with you people? Desperate for something to chat shit about?
What's your deal, dipstick?

Let me amend my statement: no more power mods until SUBARU acknowledges there is a problem and INSTATES a fix for vehicles that have been out in the wild that do not have a fix from the factory.

Thank, please GFY.
OrbitalEllipses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 10:49 AM   #246
ft_sjo
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Drives: GT86
Location: The Motherland
Posts: 1,403
Thanks: 140
Thanked 467 Times in 269 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
@OrbitalEllipses Please explain to us all what relevance engine power has to do with a transient det problem?
ft_sjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 11:55 AM   #247
rx3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: BRZ
Location: Europe
Posts: 267
Thanks: 48
Thanked 71 Times in 48 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
If I remember correctly, someone also mentioned bad fuel as his cause for seal failure (which usually would be taken care of by a knock sensor and should not cause any parts to melt away).
Anyway, I guess one question would be if there was a single case of seal failure after they installed this ROM revision?
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37411
However, since most people have this ROM revision not installed, the probability of finding one with a seal failure would be very slim, even if there was still a chance of dealing with detonation after installing this ROM revision (since so far much less than 1% of all cars seem to be affected by this problem).

Btw, how would one get to this ROM revision anyway? Does one need to go to a dealer and specifically ask for it? Do they even know about this problem on a global level?

PS: Increasing power requires an increase of pressure in the combustion chamber and since p*V = n*R*T, going FI does at least increase the risk of detonation.
rx3 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to rx3 For This Useful Post:
Jeff86 (06-12-2013)
Old 06-12-2013, 11:55 AM   #248
TemeCal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: 86
Location: US
Posts: 689
Thanks: 377
Thanked 302 Times in 181 Posts
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ft_sjo View Post
@OrbitalEllipses Please explain to us all what relevance engine power has to do with a transient det problem?
While this most likely has nothing to do with power mods, I tend to agree with @OrbitalEllipses . It is a major pain, having to fight Toyota (in my case) because I have exhaust, or intake, or tune. The first thing they want to do, is blame the mods.

Having to remove these mods before taking it to a dealer, becomes painful too. I am looking to go FI, but am holding off as well. Not because I think these mods will accelerate the issue. I just don't want to deal with warranty work being denied because they don't know what's going on. I personally would rather Toyota/Subaru get things fixed/corrected, before I continue with my power mods.

EDIT: And just to be clear, I have had this issue. The dealer blamed my intake tube, and denied warranty. I had to fight them, and they eventually got the okay from Toyota to rip into it further. They quickly found 2 bad injectors/collars which were replaced under warranty. Had I known it would be such a fight with them over the intake, I would have removed the stupid thing before taking it in.
TemeCal is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TemeCal For This Useful Post:
OrbitalEllipses (06-12-2013), vgi (06-12-2013)
Old 06-12-2013, 12:10 PM   #249
OrbitalEllipses
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: Attitude
Location: MD
Posts: 10,066
Thanks: 884
Thanked 4,859 Times in 2,891 Posts
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ft_sjo View Post
@OrbitalEllipses Please explain to us all what relevance engine power has to do with a transient det problem?
Exactly what @TemeCal said...warranty consideration. TSB don't mean squat to an unfriendly dealership. Given the chance to deny warranty claims, they will deny the claim as it's their favorite thing to do.
OrbitalEllipses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 12:45 PM   #250
Jeff86
Senior Member
 
Jeff86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: 86 (FR-S)
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 621
Thanks: 436
Thanked 197 Times in 140 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I don't believe "it is figured out" can honestly be said yet. A culprit has been identified, yes, but the failing part in question I don't believe is a particularly good design. Seal failure for a variety of reasons is entirely possible.
Jeff86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 12:51 PM   #251
*KID*
86-er
 
*KID*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: Scion FRS
Location: Laredo, TX
Posts: 978
Thanks: 195
Thanked 250 Times in 173 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
My check engine light has come up a few times, and from time to time I can smell gas fumes from the engine compartment.

So I called my dealer, theres no TSB on there system for this. But the SM told me to bring it in Monday to have it checked and get it fixed right away so I guess well see what happens/
__________________
2013 Scion FRS - My Daily, work car, and track car

My Journal
*KID* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 12:57 PM   #252
TouchMyHonda
Vtec Jesus
 
TouchMyHonda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: 13 BRZ Limited, 13 Golf R
Location: LSD
Posts: 1,155
Thanks: 592
Thanked 240 Times in 152 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
in for a good read later.
TouchMyHonda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 08:13 PM   #253
DJCarbine
Thupercharged
 
DJCarbine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: 2013 FR-S
Location: La Grange Park, IL.
Posts: 1,368
Thanks: 108
Thanked 645 Times in 383 Posts
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Got my injector tools

__________________
2013 FRS
Vortech V3 3.125" pulley
Revworks UEL - PLM Overpipe - MOTIV catted frontpipe - Invidia Q300
Raceseng CasCam, Eibach Sportlines, 25mm/19mm front/rear sway, Whiteline endlinks
2005 Saabaru 17psi hairdryer
DJCarbine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 08:20 PM   #254
xjohnx
Grip>Slip
 
xjohnx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: 13 SWP BRZ Ltd - Innovate Powered!
Location: RVA
Posts: 3,496
Thanks: 650
Thanked 1,649 Times in 996 Posts
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
3d scan?
xjohnx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 10:19 PM   #255
romin
Member
 
romin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: BRZ, STI, 535, Tiffin Allegro
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 90
Thanks: 29
Thanked 63 Times in 23 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
To recap:

My engine started popping in February.
I brought it to Subaru dealer #1 and they refused to look into the issue.
They said the noise was due to my mods.

I then brought it to Subaru dealer #2 with a video of my cold start popping sound, photos of other bad injectors, and even had the seals preorder so everything was ready to go. They also said there wasn't a problem and told me if I left the car there for a couple weeks maybe they would start it a few times and see if they could reproduce the sound. When I pushed the service adviser more he said it was likely due to my mods and probably wouldn't be covered under warranty. After one more follow up call that ended with the service advisor hanging up on me, I decided to fix the issue via a my own mechanic.

My mechanic pulled the engine apart and found exactly what we expected:





My cylinder #1 injector was so pitted that we couldn't even push a new seal on it using the "special tools". Every attempt resulted in a damaged seal. We ended up putting new seals on injectors #2, #3, and #4 but chose to completely replace injector #1.

From this we learned a few things:

These seals are very hard to replace without damaging them even when using the "special tools".
If you order a new injector they come with factory installed seals.
I therefore believe many of the technicians are damaging the new seals during warranty replacement which later results in another failure.
The "we're ordering you new special improved injectors" trick is just to avoid the manual seal replacement. They can just unwrap and plug them in.
I didn't see any difference in the seal on the ordered injector and the seals provided via Subaru parts.
romin is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to romin For This Useful Post:
ATL BRZ (06-13-2013), Clipdat (06-13-2013), CSG Mike (06-13-2013), FastLane1000 (06-12-2013), Jeff86 (06-13-2013), Lonewolf (06-13-2013), WillRacer1jz (06-13-2013)
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Driver's side window seal/door seal KAB-FRS Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 243 08-03-2015 04:53 AM
FRS-BRZ Port Fuel Injector (interesting) Element Tuning Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 47 09-18-2014 06:05 PM
Need Help - 2 codes thrown jpit Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 3 04-20-2013 12:41 AM
Bulb codes JDMenrique Cosmetic Modification (Interior/Exterior/Lighting) 1 02-17-2013 04:25 PM
Dynosty FR-S/BRZ Fuel System Upgrades! Injector Dynamics ID850s! Dustin@Dynosty Engine, Exhaust, Bolt-Ons 0 08-21-2012 05:03 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.