follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
RB Performance Brakes
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Engine, Exhaust, Transmission

Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-18-2013, 10:42 AM   #309
reeves
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: BRZ
Location: ATL, GA
Posts: 665
Thanks: 110
Thanked 188 Times in 143 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I just read through all 14 pages... good luck to all of you who've had this problem. But If you haven't had any symptons/issues of misfiring at this point (I'm up to 23K miles), you've got nothing to worry about right? I got an updated rom file from my tuner that's suppose to help prevent this issue, but how much help is it really at this point?
reeves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2013, 12:02 PM   #310
Dezoris
Senior Member
 
Dezoris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: FR-S
Location: IL
Posts: 2,573
Thanks: 395
Thanked 2,274 Times in 924 Posts
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by xjohnx View Post
two kinds of DI's?

Hmm, i checked the subaru parts catalog and see 3 part #'s listed for the "front" injector, with descriptions of Mark 1, Mark 2 and Mark 3 (Part #'s 16611JB010, 16611JB020 and 16611JB030 respectively.) I wonder if that's why we're seeing some cars have more issues than others? This is all assuming that the "Front" injector is the direct injector, hard to tell since there is no diagram, but it is the more expensive of the two.

http://www.buysubarupartsnow.com/par...fuel-injection

Those are correct, the problem is you need to pull the injectors to find the right stratified number. Which means you also have to replace two of the fuel delivery pipes and intake manifold gaskets and throttle body gaskets just to look at it to order the right ones. (According to Service Manual) Total pain in the ass.
Dezoris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2013, 12:33 PM   #311
Jeff86
Senior Member
 
Jeff86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: 86 (FR-S)
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 623
Thanks: 436
Thanked 197 Times in 140 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by reeves View Post
I just read through all 14 pages... good luck to all of you who've had this problem. But If you haven't had any symptons/issues of misfiring at this point (I'm up to 23K miles), you've got nothing to worry about right? I got an updated rom file from my tuner that's suppose to help prevent this issue, but how much help is it really at this point?
Only time will really tell, but I would certainly feel much more comfortable revving her out again with the fix on my ECU.
Jeff86 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jeff86 For This Useful Post:
reeves (06-18-2013)
Old 06-18-2013, 04:43 PM   #312
feldy
Senior Member
 
feldy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Drives: 2013 FRS Asphalt
Location: in the sky
Posts: 1,106
Thanks: 290
Thanked 301 Times in 194 Posts
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by xjohnx View Post
i'm getting some slight popping when rev matching on shifts.definitely sounds like it's coming from the exhaust though. Running nameless overpipe/downpipe/hfc and nameless axleback. Stock ECU now.

I'm assuming it is unrelated, but can anyone ease my nerves and confirm?

I get this a lot when rev matching or blipping the shift down with the automatic. from 3rd to 2nd driving aggressively or 2nd to 1st. Been getting that since last summer when I was completely stock.
__________________
2013 Scion FR-S AT Picked up 5/30/2012
feldy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2013, 05:44 PM   #313
Simmons
Senior Member
 
Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: 2013 BRZ
Location: PA
Posts: 639
Thanks: 2
Thanked 174 Times in 127 Posts
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I just changed the coil and plug in number 1 cylinder.

No check engine light yet, and it seems to pull better up top without breaking up.

Simmons

__________________
2014 Mustang GT
2013 BRZ in STX (Thanks Mike)
Sponsored by Fortune Auto/Moto-East/Raceseng/JSC Speed




Last edited by Simmons; 06-18-2013 at 07:39 PM.
Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2013, 08:27 PM   #314
AkaJabari
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: Scion FR-S, Scion tC
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 38
Thanks: 0
Thanked 21 Times in 12 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I remember talking about this issue almost a year ago when ECU tuning for this car was still in its infancy. Specifically, concern over DI temps at WOT. Is arghx7 still lurking in here somewhere? I hardly ever check this board much anymore.

Quote:

I've been lurking in this thread for awhile now and had some ideas about the
torque dip...

Taken from the 2006 study of Toyota's development on the
D-4S system for the 2GR-FSE
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3868&stc=1&d=132605279
1



4.4 FINAL INJECTION STRATEGY ADOPTED FOR
PRODUCTION
VEHICLES
The final strategy of D-4S system for introduction to

production now will be discussed. Simultaneous injection
is utilized to
optimize combustion at lower engine
speeds. The mixture formation using 100%
DI at higher
engine speeds is sufficiently homogeneous and
combustion
efficiency is at a level comparable to
simultaneous injection due to the
piston speeds. For this
reason simultaneous injection is not required at
higher
engine speeds. Another consideration when
simultaneous injection
is utilized at higher engine
speeds, the injector-tip temperature of the DI
injector
becomes too high promoting injector deposits and
degrading the
durability of the injector. According to the
research [9], a DI injector has
issues when the injectortip
temperature reaches approximately 150C. For
this
reason utilization of simultaneous injection is limited.
Figure 16
shows the DI ratio of the utilization area for
simultaneous
injection.

I'd imagine this is the reason for the torque dip at ~3400
RPMs. I.E. cyclinder temps are getting dangerously close to that 150C threshold
with both injectors running full load at that engine speed. Rather than flirt
with premature direct injector (DI) failure, the engineers chose to shutoff the
port injectors a bit sooner than would be optimal. Raising the RPM limit where
they scale back should take care of the torque dip but DI longevity will more
than likely suffer. To what degree, who knows.





Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
Well, that article was written about the earlier Toyota V6 engine, the 2GR-FSE. On that engine, the port injectors shut off before the torque dip occurs. The torque dip occurs as the cam phasing (and resulting overlap) ramps down.

On the FA20, based only on the graph I've seen from the FR-S service manual, the port injection comes back right near redline. This implies several things:

1) for whatever reason, on a stock FA20 engine the direct injector tip temperature is within specification to achieve durability targets. They figured out how to keep the injector from overheating even with port injection at high rpm.

2) the addition of port injection at high rpm is most likely to provide additional fuel because the direct injectors either can't supply it or are better off not doing so

There could be constraints in direct injection timing, direct injector flow rates, or fuel pressure. As the injection pulsewidth lengthens on any injection system, by definition you are moving your start-of-injection and/or end-of-injection timing. With port injection you have much longer time for mixture formation; it's all going to end up on the back of the valve anyway, at least for conventional strategies. With direct injection, as you lengthen the pulsewidth you can have mixture formation problems or problems with piston and valve wetting. This leads to smoke, particulate emissions, and oil dilution.

Last edited by AkaJabari; 06-18-2013 at 08:30 PM. Reason: Added info
AkaJabari is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to AkaJabari For This Useful Post:
BatStig (06-18-2013), topazsparrow (06-23-2013), vgi (06-18-2013)
Old 06-19-2013, 12:07 PM   #315
mad_sb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Drives: 2013 Asphalt FR-S
Location: Orange County
Posts: 1,519
Thanks: 551
Thanked 879 Times in 494 Posts
Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitefrs View Post
This is what exactly happen to me
Hopefully the electrode didnt cause any damage

They will use a boroscope today to ckeck the internals
Attachment 40814
I'm confused. in the other thread you said the tech said the plugs were fine:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=102
__________________
mad_sb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 12:27 PM   #316
xjohnx
Grip>Slip
 
xjohnx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: 13 SWP BRZ Ltd - Innovate Powered!
Location: RVA
Posts: 3,447
Thanks: 645
Thanked 1,586 Times in 965 Posts
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
subaru updated their misfire TSB today. i'm not sure if it could be relavent or not, but if you're interested i posted it over here (posts 241-242): http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...=36129&page=11
xjohnx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 12:30 PM   #317
OrbitalEllipses
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: Attitude
Location: MD
Posts: 10,097
Thanks: 884
Thanked 4,805 Times in 2,881 Posts
Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AkaJabari View Post
I remember talking about this issue almost a year ago when ECU tuning for this car was still in its infancy. Specifically, concern over DI temps at WOT. Is arghx7 still lurking in here somewhere? I hardly ever check this board much anymore.
@arghx7 does still lurk.
OrbitalEllipses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 08:41 PM   #318
arghx7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: car
Location: cold
Posts: 581
Thanks: 65
Thanked 433 Times in 164 Posts
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I'm still here. All I'll have to say is, direct injection has some additional durability challenges compared to PFI. I'm sure we'll sort through these in the next year or two; it's normal for a new platform.

A year ago I was just very concerned that people were all like "dude don't worry about it, it'll be fine, just install this part or use that tune and I promise nothing major will go wrong." When new mods are being developed on a new vehicle platform lots of stuff goes wrong. Don't be overly optimistic before trying a new mod and don't be overly pessimistic ("Screw Subaru, this thing is a piece of junk" mentality) when things start going wrong either.
arghx7 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to arghx7 For This Useful Post:
Gords_zenith (06-24-2013)
Old 06-22-2013, 11:42 PM   #319
romin
Member
 
romin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: BRZ, STI, 535, Tiffin Allegro
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 61
Thanks: 20
Thanked 49 Times in 20 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
First I replaced my coils because Subaru wouldn't.
Next I replaced my DI seals because Subaru wouldn't.
Today I pulled my cylinder #1 plug and found this fouled mess.
I'll be tossing it as well.


Last edited by romin; 06-23-2013 at 12:55 AM.
romin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2013, 01:03 AM   #320
rx3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: BRZ
Location: Europe
Posts: 148
Thanks: 22
Thanked 37 Times in 23 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Many RX-8 guys replace the stock coils with aftermarket coils (a coil kit based on GMC Yukon coils).
Maybe someone will eventually offer an aftermarket coil kit for this car too.
rx3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2013, 08:25 PM   #321
whitefrs
Love Boost!!!!!!!!
 
whitefrs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: Whiteout Scion FR-S
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 3,651
Thanks: 428
Thanked 868 Times in 592 Posts
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_sb View Post
I'm confused. in the other thread you said the tech said the plugs were fine:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=102
Just read this lol
Apparently he didnt check them lol
__________________
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ I LOVE BOOST ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
whitefrs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 06:22 AM   #322
trueno86power
Senior Member
 
trueno86power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S
Location: Quebec
Posts: 391
Thanks: 20
Thanked 132 Times in 65 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Crap. I'm in the boat too. Wednesday on the track session I've got the P0351. No particular sound on start up or anything. Cleared it. Yesteday on my way to home I've floor it 3 to 4 WOT. Got it again...

Mods: Perrin EcuTek Flash - aFe Intake - Nameless Fontpipe/Axle back.

I hope the seals are ok
__________________
'13 Scion FRS
trueno86power is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 08:18 AM   #323
whitefrs
Love Boost!!!!!!!!
 
whitefrs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: Whiteout Scion FR-S
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 3,651
Thanks: 428
Thanked 868 Times in 592 Posts
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueno86power View Post
Crap. I'm in the boat too. Wednesday on the track session I've got the P0351. No particular sound on start up or anything. Cleared it. Yesteday on my way to home I've floor it 3 to 4 WOT. Got it again...

Mods: Perrin EcuTek Flash - aFe Intake - Nameless Fontpipe/Axle back.

I hope the seals are ok
Trust me seals are not good and also check spark plugs as well
__________________
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ I LOVE BOOST ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
whitefrs is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to whitefrs For This Useful Post:
Carwhisperer (06-29-2013)
Old 06-28-2013, 08:20 AM   #324
Gary in NJ
Senior Member
 
Gary in NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Drives: WR Blue BRZ, 240Z
Location: Amongst the twisty roads
Posts: 534
Thanks: 19
Thanked 349 Times in 179 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueno86power View Post
I hope the seals are ok
Given the responses to this thread, hope isn't much of a plan. I would inspect the seals and replace the coil pack.
__________________
Phantom ESC, Moto-East ECUtek Tune, Nameless Front Pipe & Axle Back, Enkei RS+M 17x8 et35, OEM+Ref


Gary in NJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 10:09 AM   #325
regal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: Scion FR-S/Toyota Yaris
Location: PA
Posts: 1,427
Thanks: 21
Thanked 307 Times in 228 Posts
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Going on 7500 miles next month and due for state inspection. Do the dealers have the ECU update now or is it being held up by the EPA? Will just have the local mech do the inspection and diy the oil change if the dealers aren't flashing updates yet.
__________________
2013 FRS Argento Silver 6MT

Mods:
Clear fender side lights
Tactrix ZA1JB01C 2014 Calib
regal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 02:16 PM   #326
Carwhisperer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: A lot of supercars.
Location: USA
Posts: 495
Thanks: 237
Thanked 145 Times in 88 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by reeves View Post
I just read through all 14 pages... good luck to all of you who've had this problem. But If you haven't had any symptons/issues of misfiring at this point (I'm up to 23K miles), you've got nothing to worry about right? I got an updated rom file from my tuner that's suppose to help prevent this issue, but how much help is it really at this point?
uh no, I was at 21k miles when it started with me. happened to 2 different injectors within a month of each other.
Carwhisperer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 02:18 PM   #327
Carwhisperer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: A lot of supercars.
Location: USA
Posts: 495
Thanks: 237
Thanked 145 Times in 88 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueno86power View Post
Crap. I'm in the boat too. Wednesday on the track session I've got the P0351. No particular sound on start up or anything. Cleared it. Yesteday on my way to home I've floor it 3 to 4 WOT. Got it again...

Mods: Perrin EcuTek Flash - aFe Intake - Nameless Fontpipe/Axle back.

I hope the seals are ok
same code I got 2 days before I started getting the popping. Your 1st cylinder isn't getting enough fuel. Take it in SOON.
Carwhisperer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 11:25 AM   #328
trueno86power
Senior Member
 
trueno86power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S
Location: Quebec
Posts: 391
Thanks: 20
Thanked 132 Times in 65 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in NJ View Post
Given the responses to this thread, hope isn't much of a plan. I would inspect the seals and replace the coil pack.
P0351 came back yesterday with a noticable POP sound. Car stored in the garage and I'll bring it to the dealer soon... I'll update the process.
__________________
'13 Scion FRS
trueno86power is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 03:46 PM   #329
415FRS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: Red SCion FRS
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 114
Thanks: 31
Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
So my car is supercharged and I am at around 11k miles. I started to hear those pop sound around 1 weeks ago. Where can I take to replace the seal since I no longer under warranty? And how much am i looking to pay? Thanks

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2
415FRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 04:15 PM   #330
Lonewolf
Censorship is Oppression
 
Lonewolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: Moped
Location: CA
Posts: 3,034
Thanks: 1,729
Thanked 1,366 Times in 744 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415FRS View Post
So my car is supercharged and I am at around 11k miles. I started to hear those pop sound around 1 weeks ago. Where can I take to replace the seal since I no longer under warranty? And how much am i looking to pay? Thanks

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2
Did you install the s/c yourself or did a shop do it?

Works (or the place you got your s/c installed) should be able to do it if they order the seal replacement tool kit...
Lonewolf is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Lonewolf For This Useful Post:
415FRS (07-02-2013)
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Driver's side window seal/door seal KAB-FRS Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 204 04-01-2014 11:08 AM
FRS-BRZ Port Fuel Injector (interesting) Element Tuning Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 43 07-22-2013 01:59 PM
Need Help - 2 codes thrown jpit Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 3 04-19-2013 11:41 PM
Bulb codes JDMenrique Cosmetic Modification (Interior/Exterior/Lighting) 1 02-17-2013 03:25 PM
Dynosty FR-S/BRZ Fuel System Upgrades! Injector Dynamics ID850s! Dustin@Dynosty Engine, Exhaust, Bolt-Ons 0 08-21-2012 04:03 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.