What is your prediction on FT86 power and Subaru 086a power?

[86Fan]

Toyota:
2L NA: 210 hp/170 lb-ft
2L Turbo: 260hp/240lb-ft

Subaru:
(assuming awd variant)
2.5L NA: 240hp/200lb-ft
2.5 Turbo: 300hp/290lb-ft

[VisciousGXR]

Originally Posted by 86Fan

Toyota:
2L NA: 210 hp/170 lb-ft
2L Turbo: 260hp/240lb-ft

Subaru:
(assuming awd variant)
2.5L NA: 240hp/200lb-ft
2.5 Turbo: 300hp/290lb-ft

I'm thinking the Toyota will get just about 190-200hp (which is already on the high range of whats being predicted) but I hope I'm wrong. Would love to see about 250hp from the 2L Turbo

It all comes down to the weight which if its low won't need a honkin engine to power the car properly.

And I see you predicted higher power for the subie 086a. Are we pretty sure that the subaru version will get more powerful engine? Why would that be?

[Jordo!]

Whatever it makes, the hp and tq will be much closer to the same value...

[86Fan]

Originally Posted by VisciousGXR

I'm thinking the Toyota will get just about 190-200hp (which is already on the high range of whats being predicted) but I hope I'm wrong. Would love to see about 250hp from the 2L Turbo

It all comes down to the weight which if its low won't need a honkin engine to power the car properly.

And I see you predicted higher power for the subie 086a. Are we pretty sure that the subaru version will get more powerful engine? Why would that be?

I'm assuming the subaru would get a higher displacement engine since it might have lug around the weight of the awd system.

[Shadowsong6]

We don't even know if the subbie version is going to have AWD, so I wouldn't speculate it gets the 2.5 all across the board.

The STI version will more than likely have the 2.5 though.

[86Fan]

Originally Posted by Shadowsong6

We don't even know if the subbie version is going to have AWD, so I wouldn't speculate it gets the 2.5 all across the board.

The STI version will more than likely have the 2.5 though.

If suby doesn't have awd and gets a 2 liter for the base version then it's basically the same as the FT-86. This partnership would be wasted imo... cause they would be competing against each other.

[Ricepuddin]

I wonder what the odds of a FT-86 Alltrac/GT-4 With the EJ20 and a Subaru WRX/STI Version of the 086A with the EJ25

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by 86Fan

Toyota:
2L NA: 210 hp/170 lb-ft
2L Turbo: 260hp/240lb-ft

Subaru:
(assuming awd variant)
2.5L NA: 240hp/200lb-ft
2.5 Turbo: 300hp/290lb-ft

70-75 ftlbs/L for NA is more realistic. Your power predictions are also optimistic.

[86Fan]

Originally Posted by Deslock

70-75 ftlbs/L for NA is more realistic. Your power predictions are also optimistic.

This engine with direct injection has been speculated to produce around 200 hp since it will probably have a higher CR. Do you mean 140-150 lb-ft? I don't think I have ever seen torque listed as ftlbs/L in any car literature. The base 2.0L with AVCS makes around 141 of torque. Would be a pretty weak increase of only 9 lb-ft with direct injection and internal improvements...

[Agam]

with the 2.0 i'd expect around 165hp to 180 and around 160lbs of tq

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by Axel

It should prove to be decision time for enthusiasts if the FT-86 is only offered with the 160-200HP EJ20 2.0L engine and the Subie offers the EJ25 2.5L engine that’s expected to produce between 240–250HP.

The real enthusiasts will buy the Toyota and do an engine swap :p

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

The real enthusiasts will buy the Toyota and do an engine swap :p

After I've had my fill of the boxer...

or whenever I save enough money after paying it off....

BT 20v will be going in.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by 86Fan

Do you mean 140-150 lb-ft? I don't think I have ever seen torque listed as ftlbs/L in any car literature.

I figured I could make my point more effectively in terms of specific torque output.

Originally Posted by 86Fan

The base 2.0L with AVCS makes around 141 of torque. Would be a pretty weak increase of only 9 lb-ft with direct injection and internal improvements...

NA piston engines that get above 70-75 ftlbs/L are generally expensive. The highest specific NA torque output I'm aware of is the Ferrari 458 Italia (it has DI and makes 89 ftlbs/L).

For purposes of comparison, the DI version of the Cadillac CTS 3.6L makes 76 ftlbs/L while the non-DI version makes 70 ftlbs/L. The S2000's handbuilt F20c made 76 ftlbs/L. Honda's cheaper 2L K20Z3 engine (in the Civic Si) gets about 70 ftlbs/L (similar to the AVCS you mentioned).

If Honda had added DI to the F20c, it'd probably get above 80 ftlbs/L, but keep in mind that's an expensive engine. If they add DI to the Civic Si, I'd expect ~75 ftlbs/L.

Anyway, since the FT-86 is intended to be reasonably priced, I would be surprised if it attains the 85 ftlbs/L (in NA trim) that you predicted.

[86Fan]

Originally Posted by Deslock

I figured I could make my point more effectively in terms of specific torque output.


NA piston engines that get above 70-75 ftlbs/L are generally expensive. The highest specific NA torque output I'm aware of is the Ferrari 458 Italia (it has DI and makes 89 ftlbs/L).

For purposes of comparison, the DI version of the Cadillac CTS 3.6L makes 76 ftlbs/L while the non-DI version makes 70 ftlbs/L. The S2000's handbuilt F20c made 76 ftlbs/L. Honda's cheaper 2L K20Z3 engine (in the Civic Si) gets about 70 ftlbs/L (similar to the AVCS you mentioned).

If Honda had added DI to the F20c, it'd probably get above 80 ftlbs/L, but keep in mind that's an expensive engine. If they add DI to the Civic Si, I'd expect ~75 ftlbs/L.

Anyway, since the FT-86 is intended to be reasonably priced, I would be surprised if it attains the 85 ftlbs/L (in NA trim) that you predicted.

The cost is going to be reduced since it's a joint project. Toyota most likely saved money elsewhere like on the chassis. The boxer engine is expensive to begin with but toyota just adding DI and other improvements it doesn't seem that bad.

True it could be a high prediction, but in the same token your prediction that it could fall in the 140 range seems somewhat low since the base is already making 141 lb-ft.
Maybe it will actually fall somewhere in between 150-170 range. The IS 350 DI can hit 79 lb-ft/L and that's a pretty common motor. If there is reworked internals and DI for added to the engine then it might have a great effect on torque output.

Edit: the example of the cts with DI, hasn't the torque increased by 20 lb-ft compared to the base version with VVT? Hopefully they can extract similar gains on the boxer.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by 86Fan

your prediction that it could fall in the 140 range seems somewhat low since the base is already making 141 lb-ft.

Actually, I didn't offer a prediction but only said that 70-75 ftlbs/L was more realistic for NA (especially given Toyota's commitment to cost cutting). I agree that the 2.0 is unlikely to be as low as 141 ftlbs, but there's no way it'll be 170 ftlbs.

My prediction is 150 ftlbs.

Originally Posted by 86Fan

the example of the cts with DI, hasn't the torque increased by 20 lb-ft compared to the base version with VVT?

Yes, though that's a 3.6L.