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Engine Swaps Discussion of engine swaps.

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Old 12-16-2011, 03:23 PM   #1
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4U-GSE: the new engine swap for old Toyotas

Just had a thought: once kids start wrapping their FR-S/BRZs around telephone poles, there might be a good selection of these engines around. With it's high output for size, the 4UGSE could become a very popular engine swap for old Toyotas and other cars, like the 4AGE was and continues to be. Drop it into a AE86 or nice old Celica Supra and you'd have one sweet ride, so long as it will fit.
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:37 PM   #2
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Just had a thought: once kids start wrapping their FR-S/BRZs around telephone poles, there might be a good selection of these engines around. With it's high output for size, the 4UGSE could become a very popular engine swap for old Toyotas and other cars, like the 4AGE was and continues to be. Drop it into a AE86 or nice old Celica Supra and you'd have one sweet ride, so long as it will fit.
Hats off to you!

Great idea...
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Old 12-18-2011, 04:06 AM   #3
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I remember seeing a thread of one guy that fitted a WRX engine into a last gen Celica. I cant remember how much work there was to make it fit...
Also there is some one fitting a WRX engine into a old starlet in NZ.
So it is possible....

Im more interested in seeing a FA20 go into an old leone/brumby or even 1400.
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Old 12-18-2011, 05:37 PM   #4
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Somebody may figure it out eventually but there is additional complexity because this engine has an electronic throttle and the ECU expects to communicate with a bunch of other control modules.

Most of the common engine swaps are 90s engines using throttle cables and very basic control systems.
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Old 12-18-2011, 06:20 PM   #5
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I think its width will prohibit many potential swaps. It certainly won't be the next 4AGE, which is popular in FR, FF, and MR cars.
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Old 12-18-2011, 07:07 PM   #6
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I was just looking at the output of the 4AGE and I can't find a reason why someone would swap it in something light. I think the F22C1 engine would be one of the best swaps for a really light car.
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Old 12-18-2011, 10:40 PM   #7
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F22c1 is a good swap for small light cars..

Also 13bt rotary is also an acceptable small engine in a small car.

Another is the corvette LS1 engine is an acceptable engine in a small car. The all aluminum LS1 weighs less than a 13bt rotary engine.

But like Neutral_Eyes said, the width of the engine itself is very problematic, you wont see many cars that will accept a boxer engine between the frame rails. Especially in cars like the silvia and rx7. So the FA20 might not be as popular as the 4AGE among the spread of tuner communities.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:13 PM   #8
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Somebody may figure it out eventually but there is additional complexity because this engine has an electronic throttle and the ECU expects to communicate with a bunch of other control modules.

Most of the common engine swaps are 90s engines using throttle cables and very basic control systems.
generally i think for the most part people that do swaps use a stand alone and you can kill DBW with a stand alone and do cable throttle.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:39 PM   #9
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generally i think for the most part people that do swaps use a stand alone and you can kill DBW with a stand alone and do cable throttle.
Name me a standalone that can control the D-4S system.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:44 PM   #10
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AEM X-finity and Motec.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:50 PM   #11
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he does have a point tho tranz. there isnt a reason you can't switch between oils.
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Old 12-19-2011, 03:52 PM   #12
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AEM X-finity and Motec.
Even a Motec M880, their most expensive product, can't control direct injection. Solenoid-type direct injectors usually run on 60 volts (peak-and-hold but voltage controlled) and have a special control module. It doesn't mean they will never support it, but it could be years before an affordable standalone comes around that will be capable of controlling the D-4S system.
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:02 PM   #13
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my mistake then i thought the 880 could. pretty sure the x-finity will be able to control direct injection.
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:05 PM   #14
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hey arghx! a fellow rx7clubmember, nice of you to join us here!

This guy is super awesome and i can vouch for his smartness.
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:35 PM   #15
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hey arghx! a fellow rx7clubmember, nice of you to join us here!

This guy is super awesome and i can vouch for his smartness.


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my mistake then i thought the 880 could. pretty sure the x-finity will be able to control direct injection.
Yeah I'm not sure when it's coming out... I know AEM is working on a new generation system. One of the things that will be tricky is tuning the injection timing. That's not something that can be easily worked out with just a chassis dyno and a wideband.

I am confident that somebody will figure something out for engine management provided that there is enough demand. I'm sure 25-30 years ago there was a similar situation as multipoint injection became common and most performance guys only knew how to mess with carbs. There are going to be a lot of issue to work through though.
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:50 PM   #16
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But like Neutral_Eyes said, the width of the engine itself is very problematic, you wont see many cars that will accept a boxer engine between the frame rails. Especially in cars like the silvia and rx7. So the FA20 might not be as popular as the 4AGE among the spread of tuner communities.
You just reminded me of something.. Theres a RX7 race car with a wrx engine... I think its at a guys place who collects old Mazdas.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:06 PM   #17
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You just reminded me of something.. Theres a RX7 race car with a wrx engine... I think its at a guys place who collects old Mazdas.
i think i heard of that car before..but i couldnt for the life of me remember any details about it. I thought my imagination was putting false information in my head again..
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:50 PM   #18
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i think i heard of that car before..but i couldnt for the life of me remember any details about it. I thought my imagination was putting false information in my head again..
Its a car here in NZ. It was talked about when I was looking at a thread on guys that collected massive lots of Old School Cars.
I personally havnt seen it. I Have been to the place once before to look at a 1600 Subaru wagon for parts.
Place was full of 808 Mazdas? Looks like the RX3 but has the inline motor, 323s, RX2 shaped Mazdas and a few RX7s, B1600 utes? Not sure if the guy had it there when I went there.
I didnt even know about it other wise I would have had a looky at it.
Think the guy was a owner of a wreckers so he got the stuff he wanted at his house.
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