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Old 11-29-2011, 12:45 AM   #253
Want.FR-S
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Leeky, thank you for the clarification and all the wonderful pictures shared.

It is already in the afternoon and you are still at the hotel replying threads? Go out and have some fun in Tokyo. Meiji shrine, Shibuya station, Akibahara (Japanese Anime stuff) and Ginza (where you will see really expensive stuff...)
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Old 11-29-2011, 12:47 AM   #254
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i really doubt the 1000 unit production speculation, that wouldn't cover 1/2 of us on this forum alone , let alone the 5 other 86 forums out there in europe and japan, which are pretty big, few bigger than our own, with better researchers than we have, that want the car prob more than we do... and ive been saving for 4 years to pay this car off when it comes out... sorry but maybe the GT86 is the label for the high end top model... and a 1000 TOP END models would be acceptable worldwide....
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Old 11-29-2011, 12:51 AM   #255
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limited number is not great for a car that's under $30k US. there are ferraris that are produced in greater numbers than 1000 a year worldwide.
Think from the other angle: if Toyota keep the production low, that means for whoever is going to buy the car initially has to wait for a long time. That means that those buyers will buy them custom-made because Toyota can taylor-made these cars for those buys who are willing to wait. People then may not be able to haggle the price due to the limit production, but it is up to Toyota-Subaru to decide if they want to crank up the production based on the demand.

Keep in mind that the initial buyers of this car could be very small compared with the mainstream car buyers. But once they are on the road, they just become the live ad for Toyota-Subaru to attract more buyers. I really do not think they can break-even with 1000 unit/year for this car, but they want to play safe with exclusivity first to attract attention, and this is the goal from Toyota for this car, isn't it?
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Old 11-29-2011, 12:59 AM   #256
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i really doubt the 1000 unit production speculation, that wouldn't cover 1/2 of us on this forum alone , let alone the 5 other 86 forums out there in europe and japan, which are pretty big, few bigger than our own, with better researchers than we have, that want the car prob more than we do... and ive been saving for 4 years to pay this car off when it comes out... sorry but maybe the GT86 is the label for the high end top model... and a 1000 TOP END models would be acceptable worldwide....
I think it is right of what you said, but can you guarantee that *all* the people on these forums *will* place orders immediately upon launch? And after the initial rush of these people, who are the next people that will buy these cars?

Suppose Toyota make 10,000 cars upon release and all the forum member get one. Great. Then who will be buying this niche market car next? Once the enthusiast community is filled, Toyota may not be able to find more people to buy, and they would then have to crank down the production, which is not a nice thing to do.

On the other hand, if they either keep the production low or say they will do this, they can gauge the real interest of this car and the longevity of how this car will last, they can then decide if they want to crank up the production. In this tough business environment, sometime it is better to play it safe than risky.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:00 AM   #257
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of course if demand is high and supply is low toyota will be able to charge more per unit. everyone's heard of supply and demand.

exclusivity is never a goal when you sell a car under $30k. if exclusivity were a goal, why make it affordable, practical, and why bother with an automatic option?
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:01 AM   #258
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but 1000 units per year are far too low to cover cost (R&D, marketing, distribution and production) at a cheap price. it will take them many many years to breakeven (if at all)......
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:03 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by Want.FR-S View Post
On the other hand, if they either keep the production low or say they will do this, they can gauge the real interest of this car and the longevity of how this car will last, they can then decide if they want to crank up the production. In this tough business environment, sometime it is better to play it safe than risky.
remember Mazda sold 900,000 MX5/Roadster/Miata over 22 years.

which is around 40,000 per year.

i'm sure Toyota can find at least 10,000 buyers around the world each year.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:09 AM   #260
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Suppose Toyota make 10,000 cars upon release and all the forum member get one. Great. Then who will be buying this niche market car next? Once the enthusiast community is filled, Toyota may not be able to find more people to buy, and they would then have to crank down the production, which is not a nice thing to do.

I show random friends pictures and info about this car all the time and they think it is awesome.

I have no doubt that if everyone on this forum, and others like us, got the 86 the day it came out all of their friends seeing it in person would be equally excited as us when we first heard of its inception.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:22 AM   #261
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I show random friends pictures and info about this car all the time and they think it is awesome.

I have no doubt that if everyone on this forum, and others like us, got the 86 the day it came out all of their friends seeing it in person would be equally excited as us when we first heard of its inception.
people who dont know about this car will be shocked when they see it, or be curious what a 2 door coupe with a toyota badge on it, is.

they will mass produce this car, this car will do very well, especially in the aftermarket, after seeing the ease of drifting in this car at just 200 hp, imagine with plumes of smoke behind it and 300+ whp, this thing will atract drifters from every part of the world, they will need to make 1000 of these cars just to supply the weekend warriors and drift teams(sad to say) replacing crashed cars...
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:23 AM   #262
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people who dont know about this car will be shocked when they see it, or be curious what a 2 door coupe with a toyota badge on it, is.
Scion badge you mean Sir.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:37 AM   #263
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of course if demand is high and supply is low toyota will be able to charge more per unit. everyone's heard of supply and demand.

exclusivity is never a goal when you sell a car under $30k. if exclusivity were a goal, why make it affordable, practical, and why bother with an automatic option?
I was thinking also considering Aki's comment about the sport coupe market in Japan is pretty low, and see if I can reason with this 1000 unit/year comment. It is also possible that head of marketing person from Toyota is just playing tricks with Leeky to hype the cars.

Making this car to be less than 30k will attract lots of people, but if they price it higher than that, many buyers will walk away and choose other cars. For example, what is the starting salary of a university graduate in US these days? 30 - 50K perhaps? If they price it like that, who will buy this 200 hp car with that kind of money?

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but 1000 units per year are far too low to cover cost (R&D, marketing, distribution and production) at a cheap price. it will take them many many years to breakeven (if at all)......
Not arguing with that because I do not think so either.

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Originally Posted by Nardi330 View Post
remember Mazda sold 900,000 MX5/Roadster/Miata over 22 years.

which is around 40,000 per year.

i'm sure Toyota can find at least 10,000 buyers around the world each year.
Would you imagine all these Miata owners will suddenly buy this car upon release and dump their Miata right away? I am sure there are interests of this car everywhere, and many likes this car because it is priced less than 30K or 25K.

Again, I think the pricing is really the key issue here. Would you want to buy this car if it is priced at 25K, but you have wait 6-8 weeks or longer for delivery? or you really want to buy it now at 35K? That could be the question we need to ask ourselves.

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I show random friends pictures and info about this car all the time and they think it is awesome.

I have no doubt that if everyone on this forum, and others like us, got the 86 the day it came out all of their friends seeing it in person would be equally excited as us when we first heard of its inception.
Again, no argument about getting the interests of this car. But, if you ask your friends that if this car cost them 35K or more with 200 hp, can you guarantee they still have interests on this car based on its light-weight and low center-of-gravity sports coup?

What I am trying to say is that many people have interests on this car because of the possible pricing of 25K or less, and it is a nice sports car. If the price must go up because of over-spend budget and limited production, what would be the interests on this car then?

But, all in all, we shall have some more answers in days time so this discussion could be moot. :happy0180:
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:42 AM   #264
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. For example, what is the starting salary of a university graduate in US these days? 30 - 50K perhaps?

Median is $27k. That is if they can find a job.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/19/bu...y/19grads.html
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:45 AM   #265
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Would you imagine all these Miata owners will suddenly buy this car upon release and dump their Miata right away? I am sure there are interests of this car everywhere, and many likes this car because it is priced less than 30K or 25K.
i don't think all the Miata owners will suddently sell their car and buy the FRZ but many people (me included) who likes Miata but can't buy one due to the lack of seats etc and many people who are put off by the miata's girly look now has an alternative.

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But, all in all, we shall have some more answers in days time so this discussion could be moot. :happy0180:
we might have lots more information as early as later today/tonight so fingers crossed for more good news.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:46 AM   #266
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I just realized the irony of our insider's user name Leeky.
Fitting.
I think it actually came from a certain pop-idol.
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